[Pharo-project] Omnibrowser in 1.4
Does anyone have OB working in 1.4? Thanks. Sean (On an extended vacation in Edinburgh for most of the week thanks to hurricane Irene) -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Omnibrowser-in-1-4-tp3774180p3774180.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Oh forgot to mention, "(Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfOmniBrowser) project latestVersion load" from MetacelloRepository seemed maybe old, with references to Preferences, and errors after loading. S -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Omnibrowser-in-1-4-tp3774180p3774181.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
There are currently no plans to make OB work in upcoming Pharo versions; Pharo 1.4 is supposed to have its own much better browser framework. On 28 August 2011 11:59, Sean P. DeNigris <sean@clipperadams.com> wrote:
Oh forgot to mention, "(Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfOmniBrowser) project latestVersion load" from MetacelloRepository seemed maybe old, with references to Preferences, and errors after loading.
References to Preferences were removed from OB a long long time ago (> 1 year). Use the following script to get the latest code (for Pharo 1.3 core images): https://github.com/renggli/builder/blob/master/scripts/omnibrowser.st Lukas
S
-- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Omnibrowser-in-1-4-tp3774180p3774181.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
-- Lukas Renggli www.lukas-renggli.ch
Lukas Renggli wrote:
There are currently no plans to make OB work in upcoming Pharo versions; Pharo 1.4 is supposed to have its own much better browser framework.
Until that happens, all development in Pharo 1.4 will be done without a refactoring browser? -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Omnibrowser-in-1-4-tp3774180p3774231.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
On Aug 28, 2011, at 12:45 PM, Sean P. DeNigris wrote:
Lukas Renggli wrote:
There are currently no plans to make OB work in upcoming Pharo versions; Pharo 1.4 is supposed to have its own much better browser framework.
People can use OB if they want. Since we never maintained OB (only lukas and we are grateful for that) we will just continue like that. We cannot take responsibility to maintain something we do not understand in addition to all the rest.
Until that happens, all development in Pharo 1.4 will be done without a refactoring browser?
It was always like that in the past. Just that you use the image with the work of lukas loaded. Now for 1.4 yes we are fedup to use the old browser without RB. So Benjamin started to write some widgets for all the request question of RB engine so that Nautilus supports RB. So you see we are improving the core image. Stef
-- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Omnibrowser-in-1-4-tp3774180p3774231.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
So you see we are improving the core image.
Okay, I got it. Thank you Lukas and Steph. Sounds good. Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Omnibrowser-in-1-4-tp3774180p3774411.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Hi Stef, I just want to know if OB will be supported in Pharo >= 1.4 even if you don't maintain it, because I've spent energy and time learning the framework, and I have written one developer guide for OB and I have planned at least 5 more browsers. 2011/8/28 Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr>:
On Aug 28, 2011, at 12:45 PM, Sean P. DeNigris wrote:
Lukas Renggli wrote:
There are currently no plans to make OB work in upcoming Pharo versions; Pharo 1.4 is supposed to have its own much better browser framework.
People can use OB if they want. Since we never maintained OB (only lukas and we are grateful for that) we will just continue like that. We cannot take responsibility to maintain something we do not understand in addition to all the rest.
Until that happens, all development in Pharo 1.4 will be done without a refactoring browser?
It was always like that in the past. Just that you use the image with the work of lukas loaded. Now for 1.4 yes we are fedup to use the old browser without RB. So Benjamin started to write some widgets for all the request question of RB engine so that Nautilus supports RB.
So you see we are improving the core image.
Stef
-- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Omnibrowser-in-1-4-tp3774180p3774231.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
On Aug 29, 2011, at 11:13 PM, Hernán Morales Durand wrote:
Hi Stef,
I just want to know if OB will be supported in Pharo >= 1.4 even if you don't maintain it, because I've spent energy and time learning the framework, and I have written one developer guide for OB and I have planned at least 5 more browsers.
I did that too sadly. Alex and me wrote a complete chapter for Pharo by example 2. Now I do not invest in system that cannot handle multiple selection and trees. So good luck. For me trees are the basic minimum. Stef
2011/8/29 Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr>:
On Aug 29, 2011, at 11:13 PM, Hernán Morales Durand wrote:
Hi Stef,
I just want to know if OB will be supported in Pharo >= 1.4 even if you don't maintain it, because I've spent energy and time learning the framework, and I have written one developer guide for OB and I have planned at least 5 more browsers.
I did that too sadly. Alex and me wrote a complete chapter for Pharo by example 2. Now I do not invest in system that cannot handle multiple selection and trees. So good luck. For me trees are the basic minimum.
Thanks. I read all your OB chapters/papers and they are very good. I will continue using OB, nothing against Nautilus or Glamour, except that as you already know I'm out of time for learning new ST frameworks and tools. I agree, trees are a must. Now, for OB supporters/maintainers (only Lukas?): - Is that hard to add trees to the column panes without rewriting everything? -- I replaced the "code pane" with an Explorer and ImageMorph in the MagmaBrowser, the code is in SqS for almost 2 years, see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxUaOFRHFPk it is not the same as handling column interactions but it's a start. There is also a feature to paginate very large lists that nobody cared to mention or even steal. -- IIRC O2 could manage trees at some point right? - The same for multiple selections (I've implemented in the old Squeak classic system browser), is the problem understanding OB or is too difficult to modify or both? - Anyone willing to collaborate or review the OB article I wrote can contact me anytime. Hernán
I think Lukas means Nautilus. [1] http://www.squeaksource.com/Nautilus.html On Sun, Aug 28, 2011 at 8:46 PM, Hernán Morales Durand < hernan.morales@gmail.com> wrote:
2011/8/28 Lukas Renggli <renggli@gmail.com>:
There are currently no plans to make OB work in upcoming Pharo versions; Pharo 1.4 is supposed to have its own much better browser framework.
Which framework?
On Sun, 28 Aug 2011, Lukas Renggli wrote:
There are currently no plans to make OB work in upcoming Pharo versions; Pharo 1.4 is supposed to have its own much better browser framework.
What are the advantages compared to OB? Levente
On 28 August 2011 11:59, Sean P. DeNigris <sean@clipperadams.com> wrote:
Oh forgot to mention, "(Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfOmniBrowser) project latestVersion load" from MetacelloRepository seemed maybe old, with references to Preferences, and errors after loading.
References to Preferences were removed from OB a long long time ago (> 1 year). Use the following script to get the latest code (for Pharo 1.3 core images): https://github.com/renggli/builder/blob/master/scripts/omnibrowser.st
Lukas
S
-- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Omnibrowser-in-1-4-tp3774180p3774181.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
-- Lukas Renggli www.lukas-renggli.ch
Lukas Renggli wrote:
I do not know. I will continue to use OB.
Lukas, if you get a version working in 1.4, will you let me know/release it? Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Omnibrowser-in-1-4-tp3774180p3775979.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Since there is ob, I personally use Nautilus. It provides interesting functionalities such as grouping packages and the hierarchies view (such as in vw). Importing things are missing however, including refactorings. Alexandre Le 29 août 2011 à 07:28, "Sean P. DeNigris" <sean@clipperadams.com> a écrit :
Lukas Renggli wrote:
I do not know. I will continue to use OB.
Lukas, if you get a version working in 1.4, will you let me know/release it?
Sean
-- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Omnibrowser-in-1-4-tp3774180p3775979.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
On 29 August 2011 13:54, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel@me.com> wrote:
Since there is ob, I personally use Nautilus. It provides interesting functionalities such as grouping packages and the hierarchies view (such as in vw). Importing things are missing however, including refactorings.
Personally I wonder what the goal of Nautilus is? Nautilus looks to me like yet another Smalltalk-80 browser that works exactly the same as all previous Smalltalk browsers in the last 32 years (including OB). IMHO fixed lists, a text field and ugly buttons do not cut it anymore. Did any Smalltalker ever work with XCode, Eclipse, VisualStudio, ...? Lukas -- Lukas Renggli www.lukas-renggli.ch
Since there is ob, I personally use Nautilus. It provides interesting functionalities such as grouping packages and the hierarchies view (such as in vw). Importing things are missing however, including refactorings.
Personally I wonder what the goal of Nautilus is?
Nautilus looks to me like yet another Smalltalk-80 browser that works exactly the same as all previous Smalltalk browsers in the last 32 years (including OB). IMHO fixed lists, a text field and ugly buttons do not cut it anymore. Did any Smalltalker ever work with XCode, Eclipse, VisualStudio, ...?
Have a "basic" browser so that we can get rid of StringHolder. No more for me. Stef
Nautilus looks to me like yet another Smalltalk-80 browser that works exactly the same as all previous Smalltalk browsers in the last 32 years (including OB). IMHO fixed lists, a text field and ugly buttons do not cut it anymore. Did any Smalltalker ever work with XCode, Eclipse, VisualStudio, ...?
Have a "basic" browser so that we can get rid of StringHolder.
You could push down all the code of StringHolder into the subclass(es) and remove the empty class. This can be done with RB with a few clicks.
No more for me.
Introducing more code into Pharo that depends on more parts of Pharo (RPackage, Announcement, Pragma, Ring, RB, Shout, ...) doesn't make it easier to maintain and change Pharo. Or did I misunderstand something about cohesion and coupling? :-) Lukas -- Lukas Renggli www.lukas-renggli.ch
On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 6:35 PM, Lukas Renggli <renggli@gmail.com> wrote:
Or did I misunderstand something about cohesion and coupling? :-)
you certainly got a bad teacher ;-) -- Damien Cassou http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st "Lambdas are relegated to relative obscurity until Java makes them popular by not having them." James Iry
On Aug 29, 2011, at 6:35 PM, Lukas Renggli wrote:
Nautilus looks to me like yet another Smalltalk-80 browser that works exactly the same as all previous Smalltalk browsers in the last 32 years (including OB). IMHO fixed lists, a text field and ugly buttons do not cut it anymore. Did any Smalltalker ever work with XCode, Eclipse, VisualStudio, ...?
Have a "basic" browser so that we can get rid of StringHolder.
You could push down all the code of StringHolder into the subclass(es) and remove the empty class. This can be done with RB with a few clicks.
I want to remove all the code of the hierarchy
No more for me.
Introducing more code into Pharo that depends on more parts of Pharo (RPackage, Announcement, Pragma, Ring, RB, Shout, ...) doesn't make it easier to maintain and change Pharo. Or did I misunderstand something about cohesion and coupling? :-)
Why do you say that Ring = replacement for MethodComment, MethodReference, PseudoClass, PseudoMethod, ..... Pragma is compiler stuff Shout should be pluggable Announcement = replacement for SystemChangeNotifier RPackage = replacement for PackageInfo So I do not see the problem of coupling.
Lukas
-- Lukas Renggli www.lukas-renggli.ch
On 29.08.2011 14:32, Lukas Renggli wrote:
On 29 August 2011 13:54, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel@me.com> wrote:
Since there is ob, I personally use Nautilus. It provides interesting functionalities such as grouping packages and the hierarchies view (such as in vw). Importing things are missing however, including refactorings.
Personally I wonder what the goal of Nautilus is?
Nautilus looks to me like yet another Smalltalk-80 browser that works exactly the same as all previous Smalltalk browsers in the last 32 years (including OB). IMHO fixed lists, a text field and ugly buttons do not cut it anymore. Did any Smalltalker ever work with XCode, Eclipse, VisualStudio, ...?
They are all inferior! Everybody body who has never used them or has used them at most for 5 seconds by clicking through the menus can confirm this. Because that was the state 15 years ago. Never mind that nobody actually uses RB because it's that bad. As long as nobody admits this our tools are prefect. Cheers Philippe
I do not know. I will continue to use OB.
Lukas, if you get a version working in 1.4, will you let me know/release it?
It took several man-weeks to get everything running in Pharo 1.3 and there are still quite a few of issues left. Next on my list is to stabilize everything and to get some productive/fun things done. There is no plan in moving things (RB, OB, eCompletion, ...) to Pharo 1.4 in the foreseeable future: All the groundbreaking changes to the system (RPackage, System Announcements, Ring, Opal, RB, ...) will require a lot of work and will likely also introduce new issues (@stef: this is not a complaint, I just don't have the time to keep up with it). Lukas -- Lukas Renggli www.lukas-renggli.ch
On Aug 29, 2011, at 2:22 PM, Lukas Renggli wrote:
I do not know. I will continue to use OB.
Lukas, if you get a version working in 1.4, will you let me know/release it?
It took several man-weeks to get everything running in Pharo 1.3 and there are still quite a few of issues left. Next on my list is to stabilize everything and to get some productive/fun things done.
There is no plan in moving things (RB, OB, eCompletion, ...) to Pharo 1.4 in the foreseeable future: All the groundbreaking changes to the system (RPackage, System Announcements, Ring, Opal, RB, ...) will require a lot of work and will likely also introduce new issues (@stef: this is not a complaint, I just don't have the time to keep up with it).
:) We will pay attention to RB, eCompletion, Shout, AST.
Lukas
-- Lukas Renggli www.lukas-renggli.ch
Sean P. DeNigris wrote:
Does anyone have OB working in 1.4?
Until we get things sorted out, I got OmniBrowser to load with only one small change, tested a change method name refactoring, and 1361 out of 1365 tests pass. 1. ConfigurationOfOmniBrowser project bleedingEdge load: 'Dev'. 2. File in http://forum.world.st/file/n3776989/OBPaneScroller-initializeScrollbar.st OBPaneScroller-initializeScrollbar.st Sean p.s. guys, please start another thread. Many people may find this interesting and it has nothing to do with the OP. -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Omnibrowser-in-1-4-tp3774180p3776989.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Sean P. DeNigris wrote:
p.s. guys, please start another thread. Many people may find this interesting and it has nothing to do with the OP.
Or not. -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Omnibrowser-in-1-4-tp3774180p3777074.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
participants (9)
-
Alexandre Bergel -
Damien Cassou -
Hernán Morales Durand -
Jan van de Sandt -
Levente Uzonyi -
Lukas Renggli -
Philippe Marschall -
Sean P. DeNigris -
Stéphane Ducasse