Hi guys I am back, and I want to document : a) Nativeboost -> The things I learned while trying to understand how to use NBOpenGL b) GLTutorial -> This is a project of mine, to make a set of tutorial that clearly show how to use NBOpenGL I was to take Stephan advise of making blog posts about those things, but I came to conclusion that I don't want my users to learn those things from blog posts or youtube videos. I am a big fan of emacs on board documentation. So my attention came to help tool, I think I get how it works, I started making the documentation with it, questions is if there is anything more to it than the functionality I am seeing in the Help docs. Maybe a third party lib that adds more features ? Is there a plan to extend it ? If I decide to extend it , do I need to commit permissions to pharo repo ? Or is it better to subclass it and create something more powerful ? -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Lets-Talk-about-Pharo-Help-tool-tp4707462.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
On Sep 10, 2013, at 1:42 PM, kilon <thekilon@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Hi guys I am back, and I want to document : a) Nativeboost -> The things I learned while trying to understand how to use NBOpenGL b) GLTutorial -> This is a project of mine, to make a set of tutorial that clearly show how to use NBOpenGL
I was to take Stephan advise of making blog posts about those things, but I came to conclusion that I don't want my users to learn those things from blog posts or youtube videos. I am a big fan of emacs on board documentation.
So my attention came to help tool, I think I get how it works, I started making the documentation with it, questions is if there is anything more to it than the functionality I am seeing in the Help docs. Maybe a third party lib that adds more features ?
write in any format so that people can read it. do it incrementally.
Is there a plan to extend it ?
I do not know but we do not have energy for that :)
If I decide to extend it , do I need to commit permissions to pharo repo ?
probably.
Or is it better to subclass it and create something more powerful ?
-- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Lets-Talk-about-Pharo-Help-tool-tp4707462.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
I already have started documenting my GLTutorial package using the pharo help tool. It wont be long till I finish that, next is nativeboost. I took a look at help tool packages , looks like classes are way more simple than I expected which is good thing, they are easy to extend , so I think I will extend them abit and use them as base for implementing my own help tool. I will distribute the result from my own repos (smalltalk hub), in case people don't like my own implementation of a help tool. Thank you all for your assistance. Stéphane Ducasse wrote
On Sep 10, 2013, at 1:42 PM, kilon <
thekilon@.co
> wrote:
Hi guys I am back, and I want to document : a) Nativeboost -> The things I learned while trying to understand how to use NBOpenGL b) GLTutorial -> This is a project of mine, to make a set of tutorial that clearly show how to use NBOpenGL
I was to take Stephan advise of making blog posts about those things, but I came to conclusion that I don't want my users to learn those things from blog posts or youtube videos. I am a big fan of emacs on board documentation.
So my attention came to help tool, I think I get how it works, I started making the documentation with it, questions is if there is anything more to it than the functionality I am seeing in the Help docs. Maybe a third party lib that adds more features ?
write in any format so that people can read it. do it incrementally.
Is there a plan to extend it ?
I do not know but we do not have energy for that :)
If I decide to extend it , do I need to commit permissions to pharo repo ?
probably.
Or is it better to subclass it and create something more powerful ?
-- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Lets-Talk-about-Pharo-Help-tool-tp4707462.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
-- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Lets-Talk-about-Pharo-Help-tool-tp4707462p4707545.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
kilon wrote:
I already have started documenting my GLTutorial package using the pharo help tool. It wont be long till I finish that, next is nativeboost.
I took a look at help tool packages , looks like classes are way more simple than I expected which is good thing, they are easy to extend , so I think I will extend them abit and use them as base for implementing my own help tool. I will distribute the result from my own repos (smalltalk hub), in case people don't like my own implementation of a help tool.
Thank you all for your assistance.
Great that you are doing these. I'm looking forward to them. cheers -ben
Ok I started coding the project , I call it "Prometheas" here is the repo http://www.smalltalkhub.com/#!/~kilon/Prometheas <http://www.smalltalkhub.com/#!/~kilon/Prometheas> I managed to add new buttons with icons, back, forth , right and left. Also the title of the help tool now changes to the helpTopic selected. I want to use the up button to move to parent help topic , left and right to move previous and next page/topic. Probably i wont need down but I added it just in case. I will tie all those buttons to shortcut keys so that you can now navigate help using nothing but shortcuts. The problem I have is that the way Help tool is made it gives me the very top topic , and the current topic. But I would also like to have a parent for each topic. So when HelpTopic subtopic: is sent , it does not just add HelpTopics to the HelpTopic but each subtopic is assigne the HelpTopic as parent. This is crucial feature so that I can make those new buttons work. The tricky part here is that there is also the wiki style pragma that generate topics. The help tool uses a treeMorph to display all topics in a tree like fashing, and since each submorph in the tree is tied to a HelpTopic I could fetch the hierarchical structure of HelpTopic from there, but the question is , is this a good idea ? Or should hack the HelpTopic class to allow it to have a owner instance variable ? I dont want to create messy code. I was thinking even creating my own helpTopic classes etc, but I want old help to work with Prometheas too. I welcome any advice :) -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Lets-Talk-about-Pharo-Help-tool-tp4707462p4708922.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
I support you in your effort. I wrote some help pages for NB help (in NativeBoost-Help package), and using own subclasses of HelpTopic, which allow me to render the markdown.. (the problem is that markdown parser is now broken, and i needs to be fixed).. another thing is that it depends on petit-parser, but also , somehow on xml stuff.. it would be cool being able to write help using markdown syntax, without too much dependencies, so we can (hopefully) integrate it in base image. Also, what i don't like in current implementation is that it quite static: - a set of subtopics and topic contents are accessed only once from UI, and to see changes i had to close and reopen help window each time, which doesn't makes things faster. I tried to circumvent that in my subclasses, and had some little success. On 18 September 2013 12:23, kilon <thekilon@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Ok I started coding the project , I call it "Prometheas" here is the repo
http://www.smalltalkhub.com/#!/~kilon/Prometheas <http://www.smalltalkhub.com/#!/~kilon/Prometheas>
I managed to add new buttons with icons, back, forth , right and left. Also the title of the help tool now changes to the helpTopic selected.
I want to use the up button to move to parent help topic , left and right to move previous and next page/topic. Probably i wont need down but I added it just in case. I will tie all those buttons to shortcut keys so that you can now navigate help using nothing but shortcuts.
The problem I have is that the way Help tool is made it gives me the very top topic , and the current topic. But I would also like to have a parent for each topic. So when HelpTopic subtopic: is sent , it does not just add HelpTopics to the HelpTopic but each subtopic is assigne the HelpTopic as parent.
This is crucial feature so that I can make those new buttons work.
The tricky part here is that there is also the wiki style pragma that generate topics.
The help tool uses a treeMorph to display all topics in a tree like fashing, and since each submorph in the tree is tied to a HelpTopic I could fetch the hierarchical structure of HelpTopic from there, but the question is , is this a good idea ?
Or should hack the HelpTopic class to allow it to have a owner instance variable ?
I dont want to create messy code. I was thinking even creating my own helpTopic classes etc, but I want old help to work with Prometheas too.
I welcome any advice :)
-- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Lets-Talk-about-Pharo-Help-tool-tp4707462p4708922.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
-- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.
Yeah the refresh issue is something I will fix soon. About markdown, I was thinking of doing this the pharo way. Using smalltalk syntax and creating a help designer. I assume morphic can embed morphs inside a text. I think it would be far more preferable for a user to use a text editor. So I am hoping to do that with Prometheas, no need for markdown, or ugly xml / hmtl , just edit away directly, like you would with microsoft word. Ideally I would broke everything down to submorphs. This is why I am here discussing this, I am still trying to do this a nice way that people will find easy, user friendly, powerful and fun. Igor Stasenko wrote
I support you in your effort.
I wrote some help pages for NB help (in NativeBoost-Help package), and using own subclasses of HelpTopic, which allow me to render the markdown.. (the problem is that markdown parser is now broken, and i needs to be fixed).. another thing is that it depends on petit-parser, but also , somehow on xml stuff.. it would be cool being able to write help using markdown syntax, without too much dependencies, so we can (hopefully) integrate it in base image.
Also, what i don't like in current implementation is that it quite static: - a set of subtopics and topic contents are accessed only once from UI, and to see changes i had to close and reopen help window each time, which doesn't makes things faster. I tried to circumvent that in my subclasses, and had some little success.
On 18 September 2013 12:23, kilon <
thekilon@.co
> wrote:
Ok I started coding the project , I call it "Prometheas" here is the repo
http://www.smalltalkhub.com/#!/~kilon/Prometheas <http://www.smalltalkhub.com/#!/~kilon/Prometheas>;
I managed to add new buttons with icons, back, forth , right and left. Also the title of the help tool now changes to the helpTopic selected.
I want to use the up button to move to parent help topic , left and right to move previous and next page/topic. Probably i wont need down but I added it just in case. I will tie all those buttons to shortcut keys so that you can now navigate help using nothing but shortcuts.
The problem I have is that the way Help tool is made it gives me the very top topic , and the current topic. But I would also like to have a parent for each topic. So when HelpTopic subtopic: is sent , it does not just add HelpTopics to the HelpTopic but each subtopic is assigne the HelpTopic as parent.
This is crucial feature so that I can make those new buttons work.
The tricky part here is that there is also the wiki style pragma that generate topics.
The help tool uses a treeMorph to display all topics in a tree like fashing, and since each submorph in the tree is tied to a HelpTopic I could fetch the hierarchical structure of HelpTopic from there, but the question is , is this a good idea ?
Or should hack the HelpTopic class to allow it to have a owner instance variable ?
I dont want to create messy code. I was thinking even creating my own helpTopic classes etc, but I want old help to work with Prometheas too.
I welcome any advice :)
-- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Lets-Talk-about-Pharo-Help-tool-tp4707462p4708922.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
-- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.
-- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Lets-Talk-about-Pharo-Help-tool-tp4707462p4708947.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
kilon <thekilon@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Yeah the refresh issue is something I will fix soon.
About markdown, I was thinking of doing this the pharo way. Using smalltalk syntax and creating a help designer. I assume morphic can embed morphs inside a text. I think it would be far more preferable for a user to use a text editor. So I am hoping to do that with Prometheas, no need for markdown, or ugly xml / hmtl , just edit away directly, like you would with microsoft word. Ideally I would broke everything down to submorphs.
This is why I am here discussing this, I am still trying to do this a nice way that people will find easy, user friendly, powerful and fun.
Could be this done is a similar way to the CUIS Styled text Editor and Wiki? <http://www.stic.st/2012/04/styled-text-editor-for-cuis-4-0-smalltalk/>
From the videoI see a possible application for that was a "StyledhelpTextBrowser"
-- Mark
sure I will give it a look , thanks for the pointer :) Mark Bestley-2 wrote
kilon <
thekilon@.co
> wrote:
Yeah the refresh issue is something I will fix soon.
About markdown, I was thinking of doing this the pharo way. Using smalltalk syntax and creating a help designer. I assume morphic can embed morphs inside a text. I think it would be far more preferable for a user to use a text editor. So I am hoping to do that with Prometheas, no need for markdown, or ugly xml / hmtl , just edit away directly, like you would with microsoft word. Ideally I would broke everything down to submorphs.
This is why I am here discussing this, I am still trying to do this a nice way that people will find easy, user friendly, powerful and fun.
Could be this done is a similar way to the CUIS Styled text Editor and Wiki? <http://www.stic.st/2012/04/styled-text-editor-for-cuis-4-0-smalltalk/>; From the videoI see a possible application for that was a "StyledhelpTextBrowser"
-- Mark
-- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Lets-Talk-about-Pharo-Help-tool-tp4707462p4708984.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
On 18 September 2013 13:57, kilon <thekilon@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Yeah the refresh issue is something I will fix soon.
About markdown, I was thinking of doing this the pharo way. Using smalltalk syntax and creating a help designer. I assume morphic can embed morphs inside a text. I think it would be far more preferable for a user to use a text editor. So I am hoping to do that with Prometheas, no need for markdown, or ugly xml / hmtl , just edit away directly, like you would with microsoft word. Ideally I would broke everything down to submorphs.
This is why I am here discussing this, I am still trying to do this a nice way that people will find easy, user friendly, powerful and fun.
well, one of the reasons why we chose markdown that it is easy to render docs in other places, like web browsers. If you start embedding morphs, you can forget about it :)
Igor Stasenko wrote
I support you in your effort.
I wrote some help pages for NB help (in NativeBoost-Help package), and using own subclasses of HelpTopic, which allow me to render the markdown.. (the problem is that markdown parser is now broken, and i needs to be fixed).. another thing is that it depends on petit-parser, but also , somehow on xml stuff.. it would be cool being able to write help using markdown syntax, without too much dependencies, so we can (hopefully) integrate it in base image.
Also, what i don't like in current implementation is that it quite static: - a set of subtopics and topic contents are accessed only once from UI, and to see changes i had to close and reopen help window each time, which doesn't makes things faster. I tried to circumvent that in my subclasses, and had some little success.
On 18 September 2013 12:23, kilon <
thekilon@.co
wrote:
Ok I started coding the project , I call it "Prometheas" here is the repo
http://www.smalltalkhub.com/#!/~kilon/Prometheas <http://www.smalltalkhub.com/#!/~kilon/Prometheas>
I managed to add new buttons with icons, back, forth , right and left. Also the title of the help tool now changes to the helpTopic selected.
I want to use the up button to move to parent help topic , left and right to move previous and next page/topic. Probably i wont need down but I added it just in case. I will tie all those buttons to shortcut keys so that you can now navigate help using nothing but shortcuts.
The problem I have is that the way Help tool is made it gives me the very top topic , and the current topic. But I would also like to have a parent for each topic. So when HelpTopic subtopic: is sent , it does not just add HelpTopics to the HelpTopic but each subtopic is assigne the HelpTopic as parent.
This is crucial feature so that I can make those new buttons work.
The tricky part here is that there is also the wiki style pragma that generate topics.
The help tool uses a treeMorph to display all topics in a tree like fashing, and since each submorph in the tree is tied to a HelpTopic I could fetch the hierarchical structure of HelpTopic from there, but the question is , is this a good idea ?
Or should hack the HelpTopic class to allow it to have a owner instance variable ?
I dont want to create messy code. I was thinking even creating my own helpTopic classes etc, but I want old help to work with Prometheas too.
I welcome any advice :)
-- View this message in context:
http://forum.world.st/Lets-Talk-about-Pharo-Help-tool-tp4707462p4708922.html
Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
-- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.
-- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Lets-Talk-about-Pharo-Help-tool-tp4707462p4708947.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
-- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.
participants (5)
-
btc＠openinworld.com -
Igor Stasenko -
kilon -
news{＠bestley.co.uk -
Stéphane Ducasse