Unethical behaviour on GSoC 2010 (was The truth on GSOC, ESUG and bad attitude)
Time therefore to expose that sad story from GSoC 2010. So that the community can judge by themselves if my claims are insults or real. For the start, this was not a money matter but meddling into project selection process. Here is the story: On GSoC 2010 Gilad Bracha proposed a Newspeak/Smalltalk Import/Export Tool project idea [1]. After the idea was put on ideas list [2], Stéphane Ducasse ordered my co-admin to remove Gilad's idea from the list. Co-admin told that to me. I was shocked that someone can come to such an idea to remove something even in the idea phase from the GSoC. Of course I rejected such an order immediately. Even more, co-admin was at that time just starting the postgraduade study under the Mr.Ducasse mentorship. You can imagine how he felt, like between two fires. It is reasonable therefore to suspect that Mr.Duccase uses his power as a mentor over postgraduate student to try to achieve his goal. What was the motivation of Mr.Ducasse to made such a blatant act was not quite clear to me. And is also not important. Important is that such removal attempts are totally unacceptable. Only GSoC mentors have that right by reviewing and voting on the projects to be finally selected for stipendiums. In any case, this incident was a start of my thinking and working on GSoC to be as transparent, neutral and independent as possible. Best regards Janko [1] http://gsoc2010.esug.org/projects/newspeak-tool [2] http://gsoc2010.esug.org/ideas Dne 10. 02. 2014 15:30, piše Stéphane Ducasse:
I can tell you that until now I took that as a little crisis of Janko but now this makes me sick. I do not think that I will stand in the same room than him in the future.
Sorry Janko you are insulting people publicly but you mention that you don't. I will check if I have a lawyer to handle this situation because you cannot have just words against me. I will check with the inria lawyer first.
Stef
I do not understand the motivation of Janko, especially since he is apparently alone to think that way. It is impressive to see how fragile the community is. Thanks Paolo and thanks the ESUG board for handling this difficult situation!
Cheers, Alexandre
On Feb 10, 2014, at 7:14 AM, Tudor Girba <tudor@tudorgirba.com> wrote:
I support it, too.
The only path to action I see is to act. And in this situation, Paolo was the only one that offered a pragmatic way out. Thank you, Paolo! :)
So, I suggest this: - we take Marcus' suggestion and have the present issue be handled at the next ESUG general assembly. Like this we ensure that the problem is going to be addressed in a more effective environment (namely, more structured, and not via mail). - we go forward with Paolo as an admin. Like this we ensure that action happens now.
Cheers, Doru
On Mon, Feb 10, 2014 at 1:05 PM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm@gmail.com> wrote: I support this, along with a general require that you keep this discussion in private.
Esteban
On 10 Feb 2014, at 12:10, Stephan Eggermont <stephan@stack.nl> wrote:
I no longer have confidence in Janko running as GSoC admin and want Paolo to take over as admin for Esug as mentoring organisation.
Stephan Eggermont
_______________________________________________ Esug-list mailing list Esug-list@lists.esug.org http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org
_______________________________________________ Esug-list mailing list Esug-list@lists.esug.org http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org
-- www.tudorgirba.com
"Every thing has its own flow"
-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
-- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Smalltalk GSoC mentors" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to smalltalk-gsoc-mentors+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
-- Janko Mivšek Smalltalk GSoC Admin Team
On 10 February 2014 17:38, Janko Mivšek <janko.mivsek@eranova.si> wrote:
Time therefore to expose that sad story from GSoC 2010. So that the community can judge by themselves if my claims are insults or real.
For the start, this was not a money matter but meddling into project selection process.
Here is the story:
On GSoC 2010 Gilad Bracha proposed a Newspeak/Smalltalk Import/Export Tool project idea [1]. After the idea was put on ideas list [2], Stéphane Ducasse ordered my co-admin to remove Gilad's idea from the list. Co-admin told that to me. I was shocked that someone can come to such an idea to remove something even in the idea phase from the GSoC. Of course I rejected such an order immediately.
Even more, co-admin was at that time just starting the postgraduade study under the Mr.Ducasse mentorship. You can imagine how he felt, like between two fires. It is reasonable therefore to suspect that Mr.Duccase uses his power as a mentor over postgraduate student to try to achieve his goal.
What was the motivation of Mr.Ducasse to made such a blatant act was not quite clear to me. And is also not important. Important is that such removal attempts are totally unacceptable. Only GSoC mentors have that right by reviewing and voting on the projects to be finally selected for stipendiums.
In any case, this incident was a start of my thinking and working on GSoC to be as transparent, neutral and independent as possible.
Best regards Janko
[1] http://gsoc2010.esug.org/projects/newspeak-tool [2] http://gsoc2010.esug.org/ideas
Lol. Now please think how much curses will be there if this would be allowed. Else why just Newspeak? Why not Ruby, Self, C, C#, Lisp etc.. (i bet there are many mentors/students who would want to paid for doing project in the language of their choice). Except that it is not smalltalk.. and has nothing to do with ESUG mission. And therefore Stef was absolutely correct. Case closed. -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.
Hi Janko, So you overrode Stefâs decision, left the project in, and what happened. Did we get a Newspeak / Smalltalk translator? Iâm not sure I agree with Igor here. If someone wanted to do a translator to some other language, that might be cool. Having more ways to integrate with other languages may not be a bad idea. I donât think it would be a project for a student or something that could be properly accomplished during a summer. But I guess that doesnât matter, a summer could get you 80% of the way there. This seems to me to be a difference of opinion and not an ethical lapse or an abuse of power. Stef was right in asking for the suggestion to be removed. You were right to disagree. In both cases it was a judgment call. It seems to me that since the project stayed on the site, that Stef was also quite reasonable. He listened to your objection, he heard your opinion, (he probably disagreed with you), and he let the idea stay on the site. The only thing that may have made this better would have been Stef requesting the removal publically. This transparency would have come at the risk of alienating the Newspeak community which in my mind is still part of the Smalltalk community, and one of the better contributors of code for all of us (considering their current work on Cog and Spur). In that light, I understand the desire to do it privately. In this case, in my opinion, everyone acted ethically. There is no blame to be found. All the best, Ron Teitelbaum Head Of Engineering 3d Immersive Collaboration Consulting ron@3dicc.com Follow Me On Twitter: @RonTeitelbaum <https://twitter.com/RonTeitelbaum> www.3dicc.com <http://www.3dicc.com/> https://www.google.com/+3dicc From: squeak-dev-bounces@lists.squeakfoundation.org [mailto:squeak-dev-bounces@lists.squeakfoundation.org] On Behalf Of Igor Stasenko Sent: Monday, February 10, 2014 12:15 PM To: Janko MivÅ¡ek Cc: ESUG Mailing list; Pharo Development List; Squeak Subject: [squeak-dev] Re: [Esug-list] Unethical behaviour on GSoC 2010 (was The truth on GSOC, ESUG and bad attitude) On 10 February 2014 17:38, Janko MivÅ¡ek <janko.mivsek@eranova.si> wrote: Time therefore to expose that sad story from GSoC 2010. So that the community can judge by themselves if my claims are insults or real. For the start, this was not a money matter but meddling into project selection process. Here is the story: On GSoC 2010 Gilad Bracha proposed a Newspeak/Smalltalk Import/Export Tool project idea [1]. After the idea was put on ideas list [2], Stéphane Ducasse ordered my co-admin to remove Gilad's idea from the list. Co-admin told that to me. I was shocked that someone can come to such an idea to remove something even in the idea phase from the GSoC. Of course I rejected such an order immediately. Even more, co-admin was at that time just starting the postgraduade study under the Mr.Ducasse mentorship. You can imagine how he felt, like between two fires. It is reasonable therefore to suspect that Mr.Duccase uses his power as a mentor over postgraduate student to try to achieve his goal. What was the motivation of Mr.Ducasse to made such a blatant act was not quite clear to me. And is also not important. Important is that such removal attempts are totally unacceptable. Only GSoC mentors have that right by reviewing and voting on the projects to be finally selected for stipendiums. In any case, this incident was a start of my thinking and working on GSoC to be as transparent, neutral and independent as possible. Best regards Janko [1] http://gsoc2010.esug.org/projects/newspeak-tool [2] http://gsoc2010.esug.org/ideas Lol. Now please think how much curses will be there if this would be allowed. Else why just Newspeak? Why not Ruby, Self, C, C#, Lisp etc.. (i bet there are many mentors/students who would want to paid for doing project in the language of their choice). Except that it is not smalltalk.. and has nothing to do with ESUG mission. And therefore Stef was absolutely correct. Case closed. -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.
Hi happy (or sad like me today) Smalltalkers and friends for most of you. Thank for the support of some of you. I think that this story is an amazing press for Smalltalk. Iâm still shocked that people do not realise how it can be bad for all of us. Now I have my part of responsibility and I should not have replied to such aggression. But I have one rule in life is to never let people lie about me and my projects. Since I feel that I cannot do much beside being systematically insulted without the right to say anything I will quit the GSOC mentor mailing-list, I will not propose any topics this year and I will set up a rule to any mails with Janko or GSOC to be trashed. Iâm immensely sad for the students that work with me and all the people that trust me and judge me on my acts since all these years. Fools and idiots won. I lost no problem. I prefer to focus on creating good energy. No need to reply because my filter is on and delete everything automatically. Stef In these moments, I wonder why I did not went in ruby. On 10 Feb 2014, at 17:38, Janko MivÅ¡ek <janko.mivsek@eranova.si> wrote:
Time therefore to expose that sad story from GSoC 2010. So that the community can judge by themselves if my claims are insults or real.
For the start, this was not a money matter but meddling into project selection process.
Here is the story:
On GSoC 2010 Gilad Bracha proposed a Newspeak/Smalltalk Import/Export Tool project idea [1]. After the idea was put on ideas list [2], Stéphane Ducasse ordered my co-admin to remove Gilad's idea from the list. Co-admin told that to me. I was shocked that someone can come to such an idea to remove something even in the idea phase from the GSoC. Of course I rejected such an order immediately.
Even more, co-admin was at that time just starting the postgraduade study under the Mr.Ducasse mentorship. You can imagine how he felt, like between two fires. It is reasonable therefore to suspect that Mr.Duccase uses his power as a mentor over postgraduate student to try to achieve his goal.
What was the motivation of Mr.Ducasse to made such a blatant act was not quite clear to me. And is also not important. Important is that such removal attempts are totally unacceptable. Only GSoC mentors have that right by reviewing and voting on the projects to be finally selected for stipendiums.
In any case, this incident was a start of my thinking and working on GSoC to be as transparent, neutral and independent as possible.
Best regards Janko
[1] http://gsoc2010.esug.org/projects/newspeak-tool [2] http://gsoc2010.esug.org/ideas
Dne 10. 02. 2014 15:30, piše Stéphane Ducasse:
I can tell you that until now I took that as a little crisis of Janko but now this makes me sick. I do not think that I will stand in the same room than him in the future.
Sorry Janko you are insulting people publicly but you mention that you don't. I will check if I have a lawyer to handle this situation because you cannot have just words against me. I will check with the inria lawyer first.
Stef
I do not understand the motivation of Janko, especially since he is apparently alone to think that way. It is impressive to see how fragile the community is. Thanks Paolo and thanks the ESUG board for handling this difficult situation!
Cheers, Alexandre
On Feb 10, 2014, at 7:14 AM, Tudor Girba <tudor@tudorgirba.com> wrote:
I support it, too.
The only path to action I see is to act. And in this situation, Paolo was the only one that offered a pragmatic way out. Thank you, Paolo! :)
So, I suggest this: - we take Marcus' suggestion and have the present issue be handled at the next ESUG general assembly. Like this we ensure that the problem is going to be addressed in a more effective environment (namely, more structured, and not via mail). - we go forward with Paolo as an admin. Like this we ensure that action happens now.
Cheers, Doru
On Mon, Feb 10, 2014 at 1:05 PM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm@gmail.com> wrote: I support this, along with a general require that you keep this discussion in private.
Esteban
On 10 Feb 2014, at 12:10, Stephan Eggermont <stephan@stack.nl> wrote:
I no longer have confidence in Janko running as GSoC admin and want Paolo to take over as admin for Esug as mentoring organisation.
Stephan Eggermont
_______________________________________________ Esug-list mailing list Esug-list@lists.esug.org http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org
_______________________________________________ Esug-list mailing list Esug-list@lists.esug.org http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org
-- www.tudorgirba.com
"Every thing has its own flow"
-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
-- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Smalltalk GSoC mentors" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to smalltalk-gsoc-mentors+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
-- Janko Mivšek Smalltalk GSoC Admin Team
On 10 Feb 2014, at 17:38, Janko Mivšek <janko.mivsek@eranova.si> wrote:
Time therefore to expose that sad story from GSoC 2010. So that the community can judge by themselves if my claims are insults or real.
For the start, this was not a money matter but meddling into project selection process.
Here is the story:
On GSoC 2010 Gilad Bracha proposed a Newspeak/Smalltalk Import/Export Tool project idea [1]. After the idea was put on ideas list [2], Stéphane Ducasse ordered my co-admin to remove Gilad's idea from the list. Co-admin told that to me. I was shocked that someone can come to such an idea to remove something even in the idea phase from the GSoC. Of course I rejected such an order immediately.
Even more, co-admin was at that time just starting the postgraduade study under the Mr.Ducasse mentorship. You can imagine how he felt, like between two fires. It is reasonable therefore to suspect that Mr.Duccase uses his power as a mentor over postgraduate student to try to achieve his goal.
What was the motivation of Mr.Ducasse to made such a blatant act was not quite clear to me. And is also not important. Important is that such removal attempts are totally unacceptable. Only GSoC mentors have that right by reviewing and voting on the projects to be finally selected for stipendiums.
In any case, this incident was a start of my thinking and working on GSoC to be as transparent, neutral and independent as possible.
Best regards Janko
[1] http://gsoc2010.esug.org/projects/newspeak-tool [2] http://gsoc2010.esug.org/ideas
Dne 10. 02. 2014 15:30, piše Stéphane Ducasse:
I can tell you that until now I took that as a little crisis of Janko but now this makes me sick. I do not think that I will stand in the same room than him in the future.
Sorry Janko you are insulting people publicly but you mention that you don't. I will check if I have a lawyer to handle this situation because you cannot have just words against me. I will check with the inria lawyer first.
Stef
I do not understand the motivation of Janko, especially since he is apparently alone to think that way. It is impressive to see how fragile the community is. Thanks Paolo and thanks the ESUG board for handling this difficult situation!
Cheers, Alexandre
On Feb 10, 2014, at 7:14 AM, Tudor Girba <tudor@tudorgirba.com> wrote:
I support it, too.
The only path to action I see is to act. And in this situation, Paolo was the only one that offered a pragmatic way out. Thank you, Paolo! :)
So, I suggest this: - we take Marcus' suggestion and have the present issue be handled at the next ESUG general assembly. Like this we ensure that the problem is going to be addressed in a more effective environment (namely, more structured, and not via mail). - we go forward with Paolo as an admin. Like this we ensure that action happens now.
Cheers, Doru
On Mon, Feb 10, 2014 at 1:05 PM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm@gmail.com> wrote: I support this, along with a general require that you keep this discussion in private.
Esteban
On 10 Feb 2014, at 12:10, Stephan Eggermont <stephan@stack.nl> wrote:
I no longer have confidence in Janko running as GSoC admin and want Paolo to take over as admin for Esug as mentoring organisation.
Stephan Eggermont
_______________________________________________ Esug-list mailing list Esug-list@lists.esug.org http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org
_______________________________________________ Esug-list mailing list Esug-list@lists.esug.org http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org
-- www.tudorgirba.com
"Every thing has its own flow"
-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
-- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Smalltalk GSoC mentors" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to smalltalk-gsoc-mentors+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
-- Janko Mivšek Smalltalk GSoC Admin Team
2010? Really? If there were a problem with GSoC 2010, you should have spoke that through *in 2010*. Bringing back such story as public ad hominem accusations four years later is just useless and harmful, as this flamewar demonstrates. Smalltalk community is too small to afford this kind of tensions. On 10 févr. 2014, at 17:38, Janko Mivšek <janko.mivsek@eranova.si> wrote:
Time therefore to expose that sad story from GSoC 2010. So that the community can judge by themselves if my claims are insults or real.
For the start, this was not a money matter but meddling into project selection process.
Here is the story:
On GSoC 2010 Gilad Bracha proposed a Newspeak/Smalltalk Import/Export Tool project idea [1]. After the idea was put on ideas list [2], Stéphane Ducasse ordered my co-admin to remove Gilad's idea from the list. Co-admin told that to me. I was shocked that someone can come to such an idea to remove something even in the idea phase from the GSoC. Of course I rejected such an order immediately.
Even more, co-admin was at that time just starting the postgraduade study under the Mr.Ducasse mentorship. You can imagine how he felt, like between two fires. It is reasonable therefore to suspect that Mr.Duccase uses his power as a mentor over postgraduate student to try to achieve his goal.
What was the motivation of Mr.Ducasse to made such a blatant act was not quite clear to me. And is also not important. Important is that such removal attempts are totally unacceptable. Only GSoC mentors have that right by reviewing and voting on the projects to be finally selected for stipendiums.
In any case, this incident was a start of my thinking and working on GSoC to be as transparent, neutral and independent as possible.
Best regards Janko
[1] http://gsoc2010.esug.org/projects/newspeak-tool [2] http://gsoc2010.esug.org/ideas
Dne 10. 02. 2014 15:30, piše Stéphane Ducasse:
I can tell you that until now I took that as a little crisis of Janko but now this makes me sick. I do not think that I will stand in the same room than him in the future.
Sorry Janko you are insulting people publicly but you mention that you don't. I will check if I have a lawyer to handle this situation because you cannot have just words against me. I will check with the inria lawyer first.
Stef
I do not understand the motivation of Janko, especially since he is apparently alone to think that way. It is impressive to see how fragile the community is. Thanks Paolo and thanks the ESUG board for handling this difficult situation!
Cheers, Alexandre
On Feb 10, 2014, at 7:14 AM, Tudor Girba <tudor@tudorgirba.com> wrote:
I support it, too.
The only path to action I see is to act. And in this situation, Paolo was the only one that offered a pragmatic way out. Thank you, Paolo! :)
So, I suggest this: - we take Marcus' suggestion and have the present issue be handled at the next ESUG general assembly. Like this we ensure that the problem is going to be addressed in a more effective environment (namely, more structured, and not via mail). - we go forward with Paolo as an admin. Like this we ensure that action happens now.
Cheers, Doru
On Mon, Feb 10, 2014 at 1:05 PM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm@gmail.com> wrote: I support this, along with a general require that you keep this discussion in private.
Esteban
On 10 Feb 2014, at 12:10, Stephan Eggermont <stephan@stack.nl> wrote:
I no longer have confidence in Janko running as GSoC admin and want Paolo to take over as admin for Esug as mentoring organisation.
Stephan Eggermont
_______________________________________________ Esug-list mailing list Esug-list@lists.esug.org http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org
_______________________________________________ Esug-list mailing list Esug-list@lists.esug.org http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org
-- www.tudorgirba.com
"Every thing has its own flow"
-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
-- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Smalltalk GSoC mentors" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to smalltalk-gsoc-mentors+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
-- Janko Mivšek Smalltalk GSoC Admin Team
Hi all, I was trying to keep aways from the discussion but now I am directly involved as the "co-admin" of GSoC 2010. First, Janko, I don't see at all your point here. Whether it was true or not, making this PUBLIC and NOW does not make sense. It only makes clear the only thing you want to do is to bash Stef. So it is clearly something personal. Second...I will tell you what I remember. I do remember Stef suggesting/complaining about Newspeak as well as other none-very-smalltalk-related projects (I don't remember which were the other). I remember Stef was not the only one, but most of the mentors agreed to the same. And in fact, it made sense. WE wanted to use ESUG infrastructure. That means using its resources, its setup, its administrator, accountant, etc. Do you think all this setup comes from free? So....even if it was not the case, but imagine for a second that ESUG has certain thoughts about being used as the GSoC organization, then I think we should listen and discuss to get to an agreement. Otherwise, it is easy, use your own organization and that's all. I am NOT saying we should do what ESUG says.... I am just saying ESUG board opinions should be considered along with the community if ESUG wants to be used as Mentoring Organization. Same reason if we would like to use Newspeak for some Smalltalk-related projects. Third, I never ever remember Stef "forcing" me to do that. I cannot remember more than a "recommendation". If there is something I did (I do not even remember), I did it myself. But again... I really don't understand at all why this discussion now.... On Mon, Feb 10, 2014 at 1:38 PM, Janko Mivšek <janko.mivsek@eranova.si>wrote:
Time therefore to expose that sad story from GSoC 2010. So that the community can judge by themselves if my claims are insults or real.
For the start, this was not a money matter but meddling into project selection process.
Here is the story:
On GSoC 2010 Gilad Bracha proposed a Newspeak/Smalltalk Import/Export Tool project idea [1]. After the idea was put on ideas list [2], Stéphane Ducasse ordered my co-admin to remove Gilad's idea from the list. Co-admin told that to me. I was shocked that someone can come to such an idea to remove something even in the idea phase from the GSoC. Of course I rejected such an order immediately.
Even more, co-admin was at that time just starting the postgraduade study under the Mr.Ducasse mentorship. You can imagine how he felt, like between two fires. It is reasonable therefore to suspect that Mr.Duccase uses his power as a mentor over postgraduate student to try to achieve his goal.
What was the motivation of Mr.Ducasse to made such a blatant act was not quite clear to me. And is also not important. Important is that such removal attempts are totally unacceptable. Only GSoC mentors have that right by reviewing and voting on the projects to be finally selected for stipendiums.
In any case, this incident was a start of my thinking and working on GSoC to be as transparent, neutral and independent as possible.
Best regards Janko
[1] http://gsoc2010.esug.org/projects/newspeak-tool [2] http://gsoc2010.esug.org/ideas
Dne 10. 02. 2014 15:30, piše Stéphane Ducasse:
I can tell you that until now I took that as a little crisis of Janko but now this makes me sick. I do not think that I will stand in the same room than him in the future.
Sorry Janko you are insulting people publicly but you mention that you don't. I will check if I have a lawyer to handle this situation because you cannot have just words against me. I will check with the inria lawyer first.
Stef
I do not understand the motivation of Janko, especially since he is apparently alone to think that way. It is impressive to see how fragile the community is. Thanks Paolo and thanks the ESUG board for handling this difficult situation!
Cheers, Alexandre
On Feb 10, 2014, at 7:14 AM, Tudor Girba <tudor@tudorgirba.com> wrote:
I support it, too.
The only path to action I see is to act. And in this situation, Paolo was the only one that offered a pragmatic way out. Thank you, Paolo! :)
So, I suggest this: - we take Marcus' suggestion and have the present issue be handled at the next ESUG general assembly. Like this we ensure that the problem is going to be addressed in a more effective environment (namely, more structured, and not via mail). - we go forward with Paolo as an admin. Like this we ensure that action happens now.
Cheers, Doru
On Mon, Feb 10, 2014 at 1:05 PM, Esteban Lorenzano < estebanlm@gmail.com> wrote: I support this, along with a general require that you keep this discussion in private.
Esteban
On 10 Feb 2014, at 12:10, Stephan Eggermont <stephan@stack.nl> wrote:
I no longer have confidence in Janko running as GSoC admin and want Paolo to take over as admin for Esug as mentoring organisation.
Stephan Eggermont
_______________________________________________ Esug-list mailing list Esug-list@lists.esug.org http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org
_______________________________________________ Esug-list mailing list Esug-list@lists.esug.org http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org
-- www.tudorgirba.com
"Every thing has its own flow"
-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
-- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Smalltalk GSoC mentors" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to smalltalk-gsoc-mentors+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
-- Janko Mivšek Smalltalk GSoC Admin Team
-- Mariano http://marianopeck.wordpress.com
Janko, Thank you for sharing the details of your concern. It is better to deal with facts rather than hints and allusions, since the former is something the defendant and community can respond to and the latter can conjure the worst imagination and polarise both defendant and community. I can understand your need for hinting since it can be difficult to call out a leader in the community, and perhaps is why you've shouldered this burden since 2010. Unfortunately such burdens can sour our perspective on matters. As a reasonably independent observer (in Australia doing Smalltalk just 2 years by myself) looking at the facts you've presented, this seems to me more to a difference of opinion and perspective than a violation of ethics. Certainly your perspective as a GSoC Admin will be different from me observing from the outside, but I think that Stéphane as a representative of ESUG has some right to specify parameters for a project like GSoC running under their name. It just would have been better this was done more transparently/publicly, and also that the project parameters are publicly defined up front before the project begins, but then life doesn't always happen like the ideal - there always ends up gray areas that were not previously considered. I hope that having shared these details, even if community sentiment did not go the way you assumed, there is some sense of a burden has lifted. I particularly appreciate that you've stepped back from the GSoC Admin role you obviously care a lot about, to allow the project to proceed with someone outside the conflict. Personally I would be glad to see you involved again at a later time, though some bridge building may be needed. Stef, I hope that after some time, even though this was damaging to you, you might consider there were some honorable intentions that drove Janko's motivations over the last three years, even if these were poorly communicated. My kind regards to you both, -ben Janko Mivšek wrote:
Time therefore to expose that sad story from GSoC 2010. So that the community can judge by themselves if my claims are insults or real.
For the start, this was not a money matter but meddling into project selection process.
Here is the story:
On GSoC 2010 Gilad Bracha proposed a Newspeak/Smalltalk Import/Export Tool project idea [1]. After the idea was put on ideas list [2], Stéphane Ducasse ordered my co-admin to remove Gilad's idea from the list. Co-admin told that to me. I was shocked that someone can come to such an idea to remove something even in the idea phase from the GSoC. Of course I rejected such an order immediately.
Even more, co-admin was at that time just starting the postgraduade study under the Mr.Ducasse mentorship. You can imagine how he felt, like between two fires. It is reasonable therefore to suspect that Mr.Duccase uses his power as a mentor over postgraduate student to try to achieve his goal.
What was the motivation of Mr.Ducasse to made such a blatant act was not quite clear to me. And is also not important. Important is that such removal attempts are totally unacceptable. Only GSoC mentors have that right by reviewing and voting on the projects to be finally selected for stipendiums.
In any case, this incident was a start of my thinking and working on GSoC to be as transparent, neutral and independent as possible.
Best regards Janko
[1] http://gsoc2010.esug.org/projects/newspeak-tool [2] http://gsoc2010.esug.org/ideas
participants (7)
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btc＠openinworld.com -
Camille Teruel -
Igor Stasenko -
Janko Mivšek -
Mariano Martinez Peck -
Pharo4Stef -
Ron Teitelbaum