On 10 January 2014 10:47, Goubier Thierry <thierry.goubier@cea.fr> wrote:

Le 10/01/2014 10:41, kilon alios a ��crit :

I agree this is an excellent way to educate people at worse they can
become pyromaniacs.

And in a case I know, the fire burn was so high the kid lost two fingers for life and all memories of the incident :(

Well, if this is the analogy we're working with, I'll keep that dialog (even if I find it quite annoying)... The implications of the reverse attitude has just freaked me off.

Taking extreme sides of a spectrum does not invalidates the rule.

You want to prevent such accidents from happening, then you should be around to have a controlled experiment and be able to always abort it if something will go wrong.

That's is your responsibility as parent. Same rule applies to all teachers, trainers and instructors... I wonder why i should state such trivialities, like nobody else knowing them.

��

Thierry

On Fri, Jan 10, 2014 at 11:36 AM, Igor Stasenko <siguctua@gmail.com
<mailto:siguctua@gmail.com>> wrote:

�� On 9 January 2014 22:30, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven@stfx.eu
�� <mailto:sven@stfx.eu>> wrote:

�� I don't think Igor meant punishment as a tool, but rather
�� experience something negative for yourself.

�� right.. punishment as consequence of your own deeds, but not
�� punishment as a tool,
�� which you using against someone.

�� I am sure that if you think back at your own development, there
�� were instances where you did not listen to adults warning you
�� and only learned certain things the hard way.

�� why hard way? i think it is most easy way: you can explain for years
�� to people why they have to be careful with fire.. instead of letting
�� them to verify it and very fast and easy get to the same conclusion.

�� Anyway, we're getting way off topic ;-)

�� On 09 Jan 2014, at 22:25, Stephan Eggermont <stephan@stack.nl
�� <mailto:stephan@stack.nl>> wrote:

�� > Igor,
�� >
�� > The way you describe the role of punishment in education is
�� not in line with current research. Most learning happens trough
�� copying the behavior of others, and punishment has a number of
�� negative consequences on character development, making it a
�� non-suitable instrument. You might want to take a look at the
�� work done by Marshall Rosenberg on non-violent communication.
�� >
�� > Stephan

�� --
�� Best regards,
�� Igor Stasenko.

--
Thierry Goubier
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Best regards,
Igor Stasenko.