On Jun 22, 2011, at 7:44 AM, laurent laffont wrote:

> Camillo and Dennis,
>
> Thanks for answer and yes, I think you're right about using PhExample/Mocketry DSL, that's the way to go.

except that I would not patch SUnit but have another Testing framework for that.
And I\m not sure that I want to write should equals:..... not enought experience to have a good point of view

>
> Laurent.
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 6:31 AM, Dennis Schetinin <chaetal@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> 2011/6/22 laurent laffont <laurent.laffont@gmail.com>
> IMO having the expected value before is the right way ! Do you TDD ? It makes a lot of sense for me to write assert: expected equals: actual. Am I alone ?
>
> I practice TDD, and I start tests with assertions (after naming them). But I'm not sure I specify expected value first, as I'm focused on the result (I write the test for). Btw, I use Mocketry and exploit its sugar (or DSL?) for specifications there. So, I write:
>
> actualValue should equal: expectedValue.
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> That is, after I've decided on a test case and named it, I think: what should I test? That's the actualValue. I name and write it. And only after that, I think about the value it should have��� well, in most cases at least.
>
> Anyway, I'm not sure an order I use to write assertion should be repeated by assertion messages. Just as order I use to write a test (name -> assertion -> the way to fetch the actual value -> ���) is not reflected by test code. It's much more important to have a readable and understandable (after many months) code. And for me it's much more natural to read it this way:
>
> self assert: actualValue equals: expectedValue
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>
>
> If you do TDD, you have first to decide what you expect. You don't know how to get it because the code doesn't exist yet. So you usually I write
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> self assert: 'i want this' equals:
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> then stop because I have to think about the interface / selectors / object I want. So it matches the flow of thought when I'm writing tests.
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> And the other weird thing is that with this "fix" I now have to change hundred of tests I've written to be semantically correct !!!!
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>
> Laurent.
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 12:39 AM, Sean P. DeNigris <sean@clipperadams.com> wrote:
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> Mariano Martinez Peck wrote:
> >
> > I don't understand Sean's problem.
> >
>
> Still using 1.2.2 :) Thanks for fixing it.
>
> Sean
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/assert-equals-feels-backwards-tp3614760p3615548.html
> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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> --
> Dennis Schetinin
>