Arithmetic changes proposed in Squeak have no relationships to VM.


On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 2:09 PM Shaping <shaping@uurda.org> wrote:

There is an issue about incorporating Squeak arithmetic changes in Pharo:

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I start to understand what could be done and could not find time to do the changes.

You are welcome if you want to help.

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Arithmetic speed is important if most of one���s work is math and modeling.

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I want to help, but need to port first from VW, and I���m trying to choose Squeak or Pharo.�� Both have speed problems.�� Squeak has fewer, but Pharo could be much faster with broad use of Spec2.

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Would reintegrating Squeak and Pharo development make more sense?

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This change would effectively create more devs willing to work on any problem.�� This change would also prevent fracturing of feature-sets across the two Smalltalks from happening in the first place.

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Why can���t the OSVM be a single, unforked, maxed-out VM with all the best and fastest features working in Squeak and Pharo?�� ��Why did the split happen?�� It looks like a bad use of energy in a community that is small and needs to use its human resources efficiently.

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Squeak and Pharo GUI styles are different.�� So be it.�� Can���t the GUI frameworks and conventions be separated in the same image, and configured as desired in GUI sections of Settings?

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Shaping��

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On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 12:48 PM Shaping <shaping@uurda.org> wrote:

Hi all.

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Squeak 5.3:��

����Time millisecondsToRun: [ 100000 factorial�� ] 6250

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Pharo 8:

�� Time millisecondsToRun: [ 100000 factorial�� ] 7736

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Why the difference?

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Squeak 5.3 release notes describe arithmetic improvements.�� Nice.�� I crunch very big numbers, and these improvements therefore have value.�� Why would they not be included in OSVM (forked or not) and the basic class-set for both Squeak and Pharo?

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Playing with Squeak 5.3, I���ve noticed that the GUI is snappier.�� Browser ergonomics are better too (for me at least), but that can be fixed/tuned in either environ to suit the developer.�� (Still that���s some work I prefer not to do.)�� Pharo GUIs are now generally slower, except for the Launcher, which is delightfully quick because it is written in Spec2.�� I presume that all Pharo GUIs will eventually (ETA?) be written in Spec2 and that Pharo will then be quick in all its GUIs.�� The obvious question is:�� Will Squeak be improving GUI look/behavior and speed with Spec2?�� If not, can I load Spec2 into Squeak so that I can do new GUI work there?

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Both Squeak and Pharo have slow text selection.�� Pick any word in any pane, and double click it to select it.�� When I do this, I sense a 75 to 100 ms latency between the end of the double click and the selection highlight appearing on the word.���� I thought I���d entered a wormhole.�� So I did the same experiment in VW 8.3.2, VS Code, and Notepad, and all three showed undetectable latencies.���� This matters to me.�� I���m trying to port from VW to Pharo or Squeak (for a really long time now), and can���t push myself past the text-selection delay problem.�� Can text-selection speed be improved to the level of VW���s?�� ��Can someone sketch the algo used and/or point me to the right class/methods.��

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The Squeak debugging experience step-to-step is much quicker.�� The latencies in Pharo after button- release are very long.�� I estimate 100 to 150 ms.���� That���s too long for me to work productively.�� I lose my mental thread with many of those delays, and have to restart the thought.�� It���s a serious problem, caused mostly by acclimation to no detectable latency for many years (Dolphin and VW have quick GUIs).�� Is speeding up the Pharo debugger with Spec2 a priority?�� I can���t think of a better GUI-related priority for Pharo.

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Not speed-related:

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-�� How can I load additional fonts into Squeak?�� Pharo does this with the font dialog���s Update button.

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- Where in the Squeak and Pharo images can I change mouse-selection behavior to be leading-edge?�� Some of the Squeak panes have this; others don���t.�� I want leading-edge action in all panes, and wish the feature were in Preferences/Settings.

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Shaping

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--

Serge Stinckwic

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https://twitter.com/SergeStinckwich

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--
Serge Stinckwic
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https://twitter.com/SergeStinckwich
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