I've been using SUnit since 1998 (when it was still called "BeckTestingFramework"), and ever since "expected failures" showed up, I've never understood them. So I wonder if some kind guru-like person could�please explain to me what they are useful for? I mean, to my way of thinking, if one writes a test that is expected to fail, then why not invert the test and call it a success instead?

for example:�

�� self should: [answer = 42]�

...as an expected failure could simply be re-written as�

�� self should: [answer ~= 42]

...right?�No, obviously I've missed something really obvious and important, and that's why I'm asking the question now. Please be gentle ;-) �

--�
Cheers,
Peter

On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 10:30 AM, St�phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr> wrote:

We should have a look at what adrian did now the problem is that understanding a large set of changes is more difficult than a couple of simple ones.
If somebody want to help we are open.
Stef

> I think Adrian Kuhn did that in his SUnit work. I also remember he also introduced a difference between expectedFailures and expectedErrors.
>
> Doru
>
>
> On 21 Apr 2010, at 10:16, St�phane Ducasse wrote:
>
>>
>> On Apr 21, 2010, at 9:51 AM, Adrian Lienhard wrote:
>>
>>> Yea, I agree, the GUI is suboptimal.
>>>
>>> I still think, though, that treating this case as a failure is correct. For instance, consider the case where you had added a workaround to a known bug and when the bug is fixed you need to remove the workaround again. Maybe it even leads to a wrong behavior now that the bug is gone. In this case you really want to know that the test does not fail anymore.
>>
>> yes
>> Now I have the impression that expectedFailures should be like passes, failed, errors: a state of the tests.
>>
>> Stef
>>
>>> In any case, I think that tagging methods as expected failures should be done with pragmas and not with #expectedFailures. Like this it would also be much easier to understand what's going on when you have a failure in this test although all assertions pass.
>>>
>>> Adrian
>>>
>>> On Apr 21, 2010, at 08:22 , St�phane Ducasse wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Apr 20, 2010, at 11:20 PM, Adrian Lienhard wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Yes, if a test that is expected to fail does not fail, this is treated as a failure. I think that makes sense.
>>>>
>>>> well it depends about the scenario.
>>>> you put on expectedfailures something that gets in your way now, so after if it works even better.
>>>> of course you should get notified that the test is green while expected it to failed.
>>>>
>>>> Now it leads to a UI problem where you have a failure that passes so when you click on it nothing happens: no debugger.
>>>> And you can wonder why the hell do I have a failure when my tests pass.
>>>>
>>>> So I think that this implementation of expectedFailures is a hack.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Adrian
>>>>>
>>>>> On Apr 20, 2010, at 21:57 , St�phane Ducasse wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I tagged some tests as expected failures and I got a strange behavior.
>>>>>> On the the tests which was passing was listed under the failures.
>>>>>> When I renamed the method without updating the expected failures my bar was green.
>>>>>> So expected failures really expect that the tests failed? We cannto have green tests in there?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Stef
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