Yes, usability matters. Especially to get traction with new people.

Alt-R,Alt-N is perfectly usable, no matter how deep it is in the
refactoring menu.

Refactoring fine for dealing with a codebase. Not so when dealing with
typos or removing methods from a path while at the same time not
really removing them (aka rename doThis to doThis_ temporarily for
example).

Phil

2013/2/20 Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm@gmail.com>:

yes, but the debate is interesting, because is about usability... and we certainly need to improve a lot in that area.
I think that currently, when people performs an operation like rename, they are waiting for a refactor, not for the clean rename (if you look at eclipse, for instance, that's what you have when you rename a method or a class)... what has become quite uncommon is to perform the "non-refactored operation".
Of course we could have a place for that operation too, but since the "refactored one" is what people expects/uses, that has to be the one that will be easier to fetch.

Esteban

On Feb 20, 2013, at 11:25 AM, "phil@highoctane.be" <phil@highoctane.be> wrote:

Yes, but the rename is *not* in the refactoring menu. It is *below*
the refactoring menu.
So, it is an unexpected refactoring in disguise...

There was a simple rename in 1.4 I think. Maybe can we get that one
back (in 3.0 of course...)

Phil

2013/2/20 Fernando Olivero <fernando.olivero@usi.ch>:

Hi, i had the same misconception once, but i recall Lukas pointed out
that the refactoring engine is built on the original refactoring's
from Fowler's book, and implemented in Smalltalk by Roberts and
Johnson [1].

So the semantics of the refactoring are preserved in the implementation.

If you just want a method rename, not a method refactoring rename,
maybe is best have an option for that in the menu [2].


Fernando

[1] http://st-www.cs.illinois.edu/users/droberts/tapos.pdf
[2] or use a better widget for editing methods, than a simple code
editor within the pane of the browser, as in Gaucho..which i'm working
on.

On Wed, Feb 20, 2013 at 11:03 AM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm@gmail.com> wrote:

and you are right, scoped browsing is a very powerful feature that can be tricky to newcomers... but at least now with nautilus it is there, as first option (in OB it was there, but more or less hidden in a submenu)...
It is a small step, but is something... and well... we can improve in next releases, one step at a time :)

Esteban

On Feb 20, 2013, at 10:52 AM, "phil@highoctane.be" <phil@highoctane.be> wrote:

Yes, thanks, I figured that out. A newcomer wouldn't... and renaming
is pretty common.

What will happen is that people will remove the method and recreate a new one.
Version history will then go away.

Or is the system smart enough to find out about these things?

Phil

2013/2/20 Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm@gmail.com>:

hi,

yes, you are right.. but that is a "nice to have", not a bug... so it will wait to 3.0 :)
In the mean time, you can do a scoped rename: you select the packages you want, then right click and "browse scoped", then you apply you rename, and it will apply the refactor in the scoped selection, not all the image.

cheers,
Esteban

On Feb 20, 2013, at 10:21 AM, "phil@highoctane.be" <phil@highoctane.be> wrote:

Well, look at the screenshot then tell me that this is what I want.

It is definitively *not* what I want. Especially unchecking that
endless list of methods.

Adding a "Uncheck all" "Check all" button to the Changes Browser list
would help...

Regards
Phil

2013/2/20 Camillo Bruni <camillobruni@gmail.com>:

there is 1 certain bug, that is that you cannot see the changes of the refactoring:

https://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=7547

the rest I would consider a bug as well. But in the terms of refactoring it might
be "valid". It does preserve behavior by renaming also all implementors.

How about this reasoning:

Rename method
=> rename all senders (since you refactor)
=> you have to rename all implementors as well since you renamed all send sites
otherwise you'll run for sure into a DNU

I think I just convinced myself :D

On 2013-02-20, at 09:26, "phil@highoctane.be" <phil@highoctane.be> wrote:

I was doing a Refactoring>rename of the initialize method in Nautilus
for the ClassMethodBrowser and then the changes browser proposed me to
change all classes with initialize. WTF?

Phil

<PharoScreenshot.3.png>