On 30 November 2012 18:23, ���king <rkingdesk@sharpsaw.org> wrote:
> On 11/30/2012 10:48 AM, Marcus Denker wrote:
>> I am sure the Emacs user will be violently against it.
>
> Actually, that's the thing: Namespacing.
>
> You could install vi keys on emacs and an emacs user would never notice
> without hitting the Escape key.
>
> Emacs keys, on the other hand, *do* conflict with existing Pharo bindings.
>
>> Another thing is that I personally think that one of the things that Smalltalk
>> did very early is to not have modes for editing���
>>
>> Are editing modes really something people want in 2012?
>
> Think of modes as a monkey that sits by your keyboard.
>
> Every time you bop him on the head (that is, you hit Escape), he
> obediently reaches over and holds down a special keyboard modifier for
> you, and continues to do so until you tell him to stop.
>
> Since bopping him on the head takes no more time than hitting the
> modifier key itself, hitting [Bop],[Key] is always going to be an
> equally concise way of entering a string of commands compared to
> chording [Modifier+Key]. But generally it's more concise, because you
> tend to do big sequences of one or the other: edit a bunch, or input a
> bunch. That is, in real life you do [Bop],[Key],[Key2],[Key],[Key3],
> which is better than
> [Modifier1+Key],[Modifier2+Key2],[Modifier1+Key],[Ctrl+Alt+Shift+Modifier+TurboDrive+Footpedal+���+Key3]
>

well, what you explaining here is not just about handling keyboard
typing, but also
requires changes in UI (showing command line, black & white color
scheme, 80x25 text mode ;) ) etc..

i think, if vi would contest for "best obscure editor", i guess it
would get 1st prize.
i don't really care why you like it , just can you (or someone else)
explain me, why you think
it is best possible way of doing things?
Since i can't see it.

What exactly commands/shortcuts you wanna have there?
And wouldn't it be better to focus UI design towards avoiding the need
for shortcuts/modes alltogether?

Also, i going to repeat same over again: we don't need a full-fledged
text editor(s) in smalltalk IDE.
In smalltalk you will find yourself rarely need to edit more than 10
lines of code at time.
From that perspective, do you think it is wise to invest people's
energy into that?
I think it should be a call for those who miss it: if you want it - make it.

After all, you can run vi/emacs/<put your favorite> in separate window,
and can always copy-paste text between, and enjoy your lovely keyboard
shortcuts.

Sorry, maybe i miss something and don't see full picture,
but i really don't understand what is so cool in having vi/emacs
shortcuts in pharo..


>
> The critical point is that users that don't enter command mode would
> never be bothered by it. Users who do stumble upon it could get an
> additional leg up with the help text, and they don't even really have to
> know it's "Vi Keys", just that it's a non-chorded interface.
>
> I know it's radical, but that's how we roll. (Right?)
>
> ������
>



--
Best regards,
Igor Stasenko.