why do you think that VW UI is appealing or that the class creation in VW is trivial?
On Dec 31, 2010, at 2:33 AM, csrabak@bol.com.br wrote:
> Em 30/12/2010 19:56, St�phane Ducasse < stephane.ducasse@inria.fr > escreveu:
>
>> Hi guys
>> I think that over the years I �(but also many of you, I know) tried
>> to expose newbies to smalltalk or our culture. �And often we get bad
>> reactions, bad windows, �bad colors, slow, why not �in svn, ..... �I
>
> Those specific reactions are more likely to be about Squeak of Pharo
> than Smalltalk in general, isn't?
Not automatically this is not because people think that A is needed that it is needed
>> think that �showing Smalltalk to �newbies is the �best we can �do to
>> ourselves, not really to attract new �people but also to get a large
>> kick in the �%^&* because most of the time �students are not stupid,
>> they are exposed �to other technos.
>
> Yes. They make an excellent litmus test without the risks of expending
> lots of money in the 'launching of product' which can become an Edsel
> of the programming languages...
>
>> So each time �we believe we want
>> to show �them something cool and �they do not really �consider it as
>> cool as we believe, we can of course think that they are idiot (some
>> of them are) but �most of the time we can also �think that may be we
>> stayed too long in our �little boxes and the world moved (interfaced
>> well �with �c, fast, �cool �frameworks, �has �cool tools, �processes
>> (integration...), cool �UIs, web stuff.....).
>
> Indeed.
>
>> So each time �we get
>> down because �we do not see the �little flame opening in �the yes of
>> the others we can think hard and get from them what we missed.
>
> I believe this is the first step to get the best direction to follow.
but this is a good reality check.
Not really I do not record them but
>> I really �happy to �get exposed �to student acid �tests, this �is a
>> valuable feedback and I wanted to share that with you.
>
> Stef, now comes the rub: do you think it is possible to systematize
> the lessons learned and post a summary for us here?
� � � �- headless
� � � �- good ui
� � � �- not 20 tools to do the same but different
� � � �- github/make to build the vm
� � � �- decent integration tools
� � � �- not spaghetti code (you know Morph with just 800 methods show up like a ugly class in Quality lectures)
� � � �- ...
>
> Perhaps we should open a specific Wiki page on this?
>
> Regards,
>
> --
> Cesar Rabak
>