Am 23.12.2014 um 22:46 schrieb Tudor Girba <tudor@tudorgirba.com>:

The Raw view is a tree :)

It looks like shallow tree :) Maybe I miss the point but my appearance to this is something like that. Let's have a class

Object subclass: #TTT
instanceVariableNames: 'col'
classVariableNames: ''
category: 'ZZZ'

and

TTT>>#initialize 
col := OrderedCollection new addAll: (1 to: 10); yourself

If I inspect "TTT new" I get


With the intention to examine the elements of the collection I unfold (1) the col 


So instead of the elements I get the internal representation of OrderedCollection. Clicking array (2)


I get a new column with the representation of array (same as on the left side). And here Clement is right because it would be helpful to see the elements in the right column.  By clicking the "10 items" tab (3)  and then an element (4) I can see the content of that. 
So what I wanted to say is that I found it a lot of clicks necessary to get the information I want. I see it is a raw view and from that POV everything seems right. 
Coming from the old tools it is not a point of getting used to it or not. This raw view is not an improvement over the old it is a completely different view. As Ben sad it might good to think about providing a view compatible with the old explorer view (fast drill down). Having that view be a default could be left to the user as it could be a setting.

Does that makes sense?

Norbert

P.S.: Are the miller columns configurable. I want to play with amount of columns. Until now I preferred three columns if space is available. Any pointers to that would be great.
 
Doru

On Tue, Dec 23, 2014 at 10:44 PM, Ben Coman <btc@openinworld.com> wrote:
Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote:
On 23 Dec 2014, at 19:13, Tudor Girba <tudor@tudorgirba.com> wrote:

Hi,

What does a basic inspector mean for you? It's not a rhetorical question. I am actually interested in what you miss.

What took you so long, Doru ? Haha ;-)

Seriously, I think that the 'Raw' tab of GT-Inspector actually covers the key old inspector *and* inspector behaviour quite well. I guess that was/is also the design goal.

The rest is mostly a reaction to something new and unfamiliar. GT takes some getting used  to.

But we need concrete use cases that give people trouble to be able to improve.

 I miss the Tree View - being able to drill down in a _compact_ way. Could that be a tab of its own?  I actually think this "might" have great potential - being able to navigate in both a vertical and horizontal direction - allowing you to skip some levels between opening a new pane horizontally.

cheers -ben



Doru

On Tue, Dec 23, 2014 at 6:06 PM, Cl��ment Bera <bera.clement@gmail.com> wrote:
Yes.

World Menu >> Settings >> Glamourous toolkit
then you can uncheck GTInspector and GTPlayground.

I also need to do that very often as GTInspector does not have a basic inspector.

2014-12-23 11:50 GMT+01:00 Norbert Hartl <norbert@hartl.name>:
Is there a way to get the old tools via shortcut?

I started something new with pharo 4.0 today. I discovered a bug in Nautilus where every rename or deletion of a method raises a debugger. I tried finding the bug but struggled because to me the new inspector is really confusing. If I "just" want to unfold a few levels of references to get a glimpse of the structure the new tool prevents me from doing that. There is just to much information in this window and too much happening to me.
To me it looks like a power tool you need to get used to. So it is probably not the best tool for simple tasks and people new to this environment might be overwhelmed. At least I would like to be able to use the old tools.

Norbert







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