I understand completely, I agree and strongly vote for A as well.
> On 19 Feb 2017, at 21:05, Torsten Bergmann <astares@gmx.de> wrote:
>
> In the past in Pharo it was possible to open Spotter, type in the name of a framework/project to load
> from catalog, perform a search and just hit ENTER to easily install the project.
>
> This was following the Spotter idea that it is easy to access most informations of Pharo
> with the Spotter tool.
>
> There always was and still is a setting in "Settings" -> "Catalog" -> "Display catalog projects in Spotter".
> This setting is ENABLED BY DEFAULT but could be switched off in the settings tool or custom preference
> scripts if this is problematic for someone.
>
>
> Now in Pharo 6 there is an additional class "GTSpotterExtensionSettings" to activate/deactivate
> Spotter extensions. While nearly all of the Spotter extensions are enabled the one for the catalog
> integration is DISABLED BY DEFAULT.
>
> This leads to several effects:
>
>�� 1. While in the past it was possible in a fresh Pharo image to search and install out of
>�� �� ��the box it is (as of today in the not yet released Pharo 6) not possible anymore to quickly
>�� �� ��start by searching and installing from catalog using Spotter.
>
>�� 2. It is very confusing that in the settings "Display catalog projects in Spotter" is enabled but a search
>�� �� ��in Spotter gives no results. Most people will not not know about the second setting and easily
>�� �� ��get lost and think this behavior is just broken.
>�� �� ��Also this second setting for the Spotter extension is much more hidden between all the other
>�� �� ��Spotter extension enablements very and hard to find.
>
>�� 3. Several of my youtube videos demonstrating Goodies like DesktopManager, QuickAccess,
>�� �� ��MessageFlowBrowser, ... directly start by loading the tools from Spotter. Anyone newbee who will
>�� �� ��follow these will not only be confused - but also stuck in trying Pharo when he learns
>�� �� ��from these videos.
>
>�� �� ��I was asked several times on Slack and via Mail from people who were not able to reproduce ... this
>�� �� ��is really annyoing. Especially this gives the wrong impression to newbees. Things should be easy
>�� �� ��not complicated.
>
> To my knowledge disabling the Spotter search in Pharo 6 came up due to some Pharo teaching in regions
> with slow internet connection. I understand that we would like to support these Pharo users too as best
> as possible in their out of the box experience ... but (without being able to prove) I think that 90% or
> more Pharo users have a regular internet connection. Otherwise it would be hard to work with updates,
> project loading, PharoLauncher, STHub or Iceberg/GitHub.
>
> Also my own personal experience is that even on low bandwidth network this Catalog Spotter search for
> me was always fast enough (as I often use Pharo in trains with slow connections or on a Pi with slow
> connections and less processing power). I do not know about all others from the community.
>
> I invested hours in the past in developing and introducing the initial configuration browser to Pharo,
> later improved and helped shaping its replacement CatalogBrowser, also contributed this spotter search
> for the catalog items so things are more accessible, easy and enjoyable. That's why I also invested
> hours in udpating configs or pushing you to put things into catalog.
>
> Because accessibility is key. Only when things are easy to access and understandable people will
> enjoy Pharo.
>
> Currently in an out-of the box image this easy access to the projects via Spotter is blocked.
> Additionally I have to explain to anyone who asks me that there is a second non-obvious/more hidden setting
> leaving an unpleasant feeling how many others unknown to me will struggle with this issue.
>
> I see two solutions:
>
>�� ��A) We enable both settings by DEFAULT to bring back the Spotter search and installation
>�� �� �� of catalog items - with the clear benefit of having
>�� �� �� �� ��- the previous behavior in Pharo back
>�� �� �� �� ��- the out of the box ability to search for catalog projects in any fresh image
>�� �� �� �� ��- no confusion among the user base anymore regarding the settings
>�� �� �� �� ��- we have unbroken Youtube videos that newbees can continue to follow
>�� �� �� �� ��- if a user asks (like often) how to get Seaside, Artefact, Mongo, Teapot or other projects we can
>�� �� �� �� �� ��just tell him "search in Spotter and you should be fine" as most of them have a config in
>�� �� �� �� �� ��the catalog.
>
>�� �� �� �� �� ��Remember that not all of us know about all the github pages or nice Metacello expressions.
>�� �� �� �� �� ��So the easier things are found and accessible the better it is.
>
>�� ��B) If A is still a "No go" for the community we should at a minimum switch the defaults of
>�� �� �� the two settings:
>
>�� �� �� ��=> we ENABLE the Spotter extension (GTSpotterExtensionSettings perform: #GTSpotter_spotterCatalogProjectsFor: with: true)
>�� �� �� ��=> we DISABLE the catalog setting (CatalogSettings displayCatalogProjectsInSpotter: false)
>
>�� �� �� With this at least we have no confusion among the user base anymore regarding the settings.
>
> I would clearly and strongly vote for option A as my preferred one.
>
> I agree there are regions/continents with very low bandwidth - but Pharo will rival with state of the art
> technologies where loading/installation megabytes from the web is often not seen as an issue. There are
> many package registries out there (from debian packages) up to Maven, npm in JS, ... or look at Docker.
> Shuffling megabytes around is a reality in todays technologies.
>
> So to be honest I never understood this whole "bandwidth" discussion and even if this comes up it could
> be solved with a note in the download/welcome screen or pointing to a custom preference script for low bandwidth
> situations.
>
> Sorry for having to bring this up again ... but I would like this to be solved BEFORE Pharo 6 will
> be pushed out of the door. Keeping it like it is without further actions would be really stupid.
>
> Thanks for you comments, ideas or votes.
>
> Thanks
> T.
>