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Re: The Greatest Contributors to Smalltalk since 1980

TM
Tim Mackinnon
Sun, Jul 25, 2021 2:40 PM


I forgot to mention in my answer - this should in no way detract from the visions of other projects some of which I’m less familiar with - Squeak, Cuis, GT, SqueakJS, Livey, Caffeine… I’m in awe of all of them…

And I think that’s my point - it’s the communities and the work they do to promote a live, simple, fun and feature rich coding experience that we should all celebrate.

Tim

On 25 Jul 2021, at 16:30, Tim Mackinnon tim@testit.works wrote:

Isn’t this the wrong question to ask? I’m assuming this is to do with Smalltalk’s 50th anniversary, and of course we are grateful to those early pioneers who did lots of work in the field 20-30 years ago but to me that’s the old history and while it’s interesting to call out, it doesn’t shed life on the day to day energy we have today - whst keeps Smalltalk alive and current.

I’d like to nominate the Pharo community - being brave enough to fork when it was felt that doing something different was interesting enough to take the flack for it. But more than this, so many people have continued to contribute - teach, fix, pioneer etc. Particularly when there are so many other languages and movements you can follow - continuing the vision of a simple, malleable system that everyone can understand and fix is commendable.

If you really want a name - I’d say Stephan Ducasse and Marcus Denker - I heard them stand up at Esug 2007 (Lugano) and really call out a vision for a malleable environment that was Smalltalk inspired but would let them properly experiment with new language ideas (I recall in particular the reference to reified inst var slots to let them manipulate programs more easily when experimenting). This was possibly the foreshadow to Pharo, and it took about 10 years of incremental improvements to achieve that exciting 2007 vision that I recall painted at the time. It certainly didn’t happen in a day , and it’s still happening now as we read this, and the job is still not done.

But in a way I’m kind of reluctant to name, names as so many people have piled in around that community vision to make something that will continue to live and experiment. But to Stephan/Marcus and everyone else - hats off to you for creating something that is fun and productive to use, but more importantly is inspiring enough to contribute to.

Tim

On 25 Jul 2021, at 11:00, Clacton Server david@totallyobjects.com wrote:
Eric Clayberg - John O’Keefe??

On 25 Jul 2021, at 09:33, Richard Sargent rsargent@5x5.on.ca wrote:

Dave Thomas of OTI probably ranks in your list.

On July 24, 2021 3:44:40 PM PDT, horrido.hobbies@gmail.com wrote:

I’m looking for a list of individuals who have contributed greatly to the advancement of Smalltalk, post Xerox PARC period (1972-1980). By advancement, I don’t only mean on a technical basis but on an educational or public awareness basis (this could include books, podcasts, talk circuit, video instruction, etc.). Any basis that has made Smalltalk a success in the marketplace (including commercialization).

I posted this question on LinkedIn and got one useful response: the late James Robertson.

My personal nomination is Kent Beck.

I’m not that familiar with the deep history of Smalltalk, so I’m looking for more nominations.

Thanks.

 I forgot to mention in my answer - this should in no way detract from the visions of other projects some of which I’m less familiar with - Squeak, Cuis, GT, SqueakJS, Livey, Caffeine… I’m in awe of all of them… And I think that’s my point - it’s the communities and the work they do to promote a live, simple, fun and feature rich coding experience that we should all celebrate. Tim > On 25 Jul 2021, at 16:30, Tim Mackinnon <tim@testit.works> wrote: >  > Isn’t this the wrong question to ask? I’m assuming this is to do with Smalltalk’s 50th anniversary, and of course we are grateful to those early pioneers who did lots of work in the field 20-30 years ago but to me that’s the old history and while it’s interesting to call out, it doesn’t shed life on the day to day energy we have today - whst keeps Smalltalk alive and current. > > I’d like to nominate the Pharo community - being brave enough to fork when it was felt that doing something different was interesting enough to take the flack for it. But more than this, so many people have continued to contribute - teach, fix, pioneer etc. Particularly when there are so many other languages and movements you can follow - continuing the vision of a simple, malleable system that everyone can understand and fix is commendable. > > If you really want a name - I’d say Stephan Ducasse and Marcus Denker - I heard them stand up at Esug 2007 (Lugano) and really call out a vision for a malleable environment that was Smalltalk inspired but would let them properly experiment with new language ideas (I recall in particular the reference to reified inst var slots to let them manipulate programs more easily when experimenting). This was possibly the foreshadow to Pharo, and it took about 10 years of incremental improvements to achieve that exciting 2007 vision that I recall painted at the time. It certainly didn’t happen in a day , and it’s still happening now as we read this, and the job is still not done. > > But in a way I’m kind of reluctant to name, names as so many people have piled in around that community vision to make something that will continue to live and experiment. But to Stephan/Marcus and everyone else - hats off to you for creating something that is fun and productive to use, but more importantly is inspiring enough to contribute to. > > Tim > >> On 25 Jul 2021, at 11:00, Clacton Server <david@totallyobjects.com> wrote: >> Eric Clayberg - John O’Keefe?? >> >>> On 25 Jul 2021, at 09:33, Richard Sargent <rsargent@5x5.on.ca> wrote: >>> >>> Dave Thomas of OTI probably ranks in your list. >>> >>> On July 24, 2021 3:44:40 PM PDT, horrido.hobbies@gmail.com wrote: >>>> >>>> I’m looking for a list of individuals who have contributed greatly to the advancement of Smalltalk, post Xerox PARC period (1972-1980). By advancement, I don’t only mean on a technical basis but on an educational or public awareness basis (this could include books, podcasts, talk circuit, video instruction, etc.). Any basis that has made Smalltalk a success in the marketplace (including commercialization). >>>> >>>> I posted this question on LinkedIn and got one useful response: the late James Robertson. >>>> >>>> My personal nomination is Kent Beck. >>>> >>>> I’m not that familiar with the deep history of Smalltalk, so I’m looking for more nominations. >>>> >>>> Thanks.
HH
horrido.hobbies@gmail.com
Mon, Jul 26, 2021 1:44 AM

Thanks to everyone for some great suggestions.

I’m coming around to the notion that I asked the wrong question. In the context of Smalltalk’s 50th anniversary, the reason I asked the question is because I noted that in APL’s 50th anniversary celebration, they gave an award to the one individual who was deemed the greatest contributor to APL. So I thought I might do the same for Smalltalk.

But now, I’m seeing that was somewhat wrongheaded. Yes, it is the community that made Smalltalk what it was, and what it is today. Singling out one individual seems unfair, and rather arbitrary.

Maybe I’ll conduct a poll with these suggestions and let the Smalltalk community express their support with their votes. That may even provide some insight.

Thanks to everyone for some great suggestions. I’m coming around to the notion that I asked the wrong question. In the context of Smalltalk’s 50th anniversary, the reason I asked the question is because I noted that in APL’s 50th anniversary celebration, they gave an award to the one individual who was deemed the greatest contributor to APL. So I thought I might do the same for Smalltalk. But now, I’m seeing that was somewhat wrongheaded. Yes, it is the community that made Smalltalk what it was, and what it is today. Singling out one individual seems unfair, and rather arbitrary. Maybe I’ll conduct a poll with these suggestions and let the Smalltalk community express their support with their votes. That may even provide some insight.
RS
Richard Sargent
Mon, Jul 26, 2021 4:34 AM

Tudor Girba and his colleagues at feenk need to be recognized, too.

In many respects, they have pushed Smalltalk to do things that, I think,
the original designers would have heartily endorsed.

On Sun, Jul 25, 2021, 18:44 horrido.hobbies@gmail.com wrote:

Thanks to everyone for some great suggestions.

I’m coming around to the notion that I asked the wrong question. In the
context of Smalltalk’s 50th anniversary, the reason I asked the question is
because I noted that in APL’s 50th anniversary celebration, they gave an
award to the one individual who was deemed the greatest contributor to APL.
So I thought I might do the same for Smalltalk.

But now, I’m seeing that was somewhat wrongheaded. Yes, it is the
community that made Smalltalk what it was, and what it is today. Singling
out one individual seems unfair, and rather arbitrary.

Maybe I’ll conduct a poll with these suggestions and let the Smalltalk
community express their support with their votes. That may even provide
some insight.

Tudor Girba and his colleagues at feenk need to be recognized, too. In many respects, they have pushed Smalltalk to do things that, I think, the original designers would have heartily endorsed. On Sun, Jul 25, 2021, 18:44 <horrido.hobbies@gmail.com> wrote: > Thanks to everyone for some great suggestions. > > I’m coming around to the notion that I asked the wrong question. In the > context of Smalltalk’s 50th anniversary, the reason I asked the question is > because I noted that in APL’s 50th anniversary celebration, they gave an > award to the one individual who was deemed the greatest contributor to APL. > So I thought I might do the same for Smalltalk. > > But now, I’m seeing that was somewhat wrongheaded. Yes, it is the > community that made Smalltalk what it was, and what it is today. Singling > out one individual seems unfair, and rather arbitrary. > > Maybe I’ll conduct a poll with these suggestions and let the Smalltalk > community express their support with their votes. That may even provide > some insight. >
J
jtuchel@objektfabrik.de
Mon, Jul 26, 2021 6:33 AM

I guess I agree on the question being wrong.

There are quiet a few people I think did incredibly important things,
not only to Smalltalk. What about the people behind the Refactoring
Browser (John Brant? and I guess a few less prominent people who did
some of the groundwork), for example? Seaside has been mentioned
already, but there are other milestones, like TOPLink or Glorp (Alan
Knight and his ex-colleagues).

Then there are people who did a lot of ground work that tends to be
unseen. Niall Ross has been working in SUnit, RB, Rewriet Tool and Glorp
literally for decades without getting any laurels because he "only"
carried these milestones forward and kept them working. And there are
quite a few people who did amazing things that we tend to forget about.
The success of Smalltalk (and even if we are not mainstream, our
language has survived for 50 years and will not go anywhere soon, some
hyped technologies won't even make 10, not to think of 20 years) is
based on the work of so many people. What about Vanessa Freudenberg, The
whole Squeak and EToys community, OpenQwaq and scratch? OLPC? What about
the authors of the Design Patterns Smalltalk Companion? James
Robertson's Podcast was wonderful and I miss it a lot. But he had people
on the podcast who also made it a joyful experience: Willow Lucas-Smith
and David Buck come to mind. Anybody remember how much energy Randal
Schwartz once put into Smalltalk marketing?
I have only been in the Smalltalk world for the last 26 years, and
everybody I am mentioning here has been working on the foundation that
has been built for them a long time before that. Rebecca Wirfs-Brock?
Martin Fowler? Eric Clayberg? Joseph Pelrine are just a few names that
immediately com to my mind. And I am sure I am forgetting more important
names or even never heard of them.

We are standing on the shoulders of Giants. Some may even not be aware
of what they did. Partly because they have moved on to other languages
and communities. Likas Renggli, Julian Fitzell, Vassily Bykov, Michel
Bany, Martin Kobetic, many of the Eclipse guys. The list is just too long.

Joachim

Am 26.07.21 um 06:34 schrieb Richard Sargent:

Tudor Girba and his colleagues at feenk need to be recognized, too.

In many respects, they have pushed Smalltalk to do things that, I
think, the original designers would have heartily endorsed.

On Sun, Jul 25, 2021, 18:44 <horrido.hobbies@gmail.com
mailto:horrido.hobbies@gmail.com> wrote:

 Thanks to everyone for some great suggestions.

 I’m coming around to the notion that I asked the wrong question.
 In the context of Smalltalk’s 50th anniversary, the reason I asked
 the question is because I noted that in APL’s 50th anniversary
 celebration, they gave an award to the one individual who was
 deemed the greatest contributor to APL. So I thought I might do
 the same for Smalltalk.

 But now, I’m seeing that was somewhat wrongheaded. Yes, it is the
 community that made Smalltalk what it was, and what it is today.
 Singling out one individual seems unfair, and rather arbitrary.

 Maybe I’ll conduct a poll with these suggestions and let the
 Smalltalk community express their support with their votes. That
 may even provide some insight.

--

Objektfabrik Joachim Tuchel          mailto:jtuchel@objektfabrik.de
Fliederweg 1                        http://www.objektfabrik.de
D-71640 Ludwigsburg                  http://joachimtuchel.wordpress.com
Telefon: +49 7141 56 10 86 0        Fax: +49 7141 56 10 86 1

I guess I agree on the question being wrong. There are quiet a few people I think did incredibly important things, not only to Smalltalk. What about the people behind the Refactoring Browser (John Brant? and I guess a few less prominent people who did some of the groundwork), for example? Seaside has been mentioned already, but there are other milestones, like TOPLink or Glorp (Alan Knight and his ex-colleagues). Then there are people who did a lot of ground work that tends to be unseen. Niall Ross has been working in SUnit, RB, Rewriet Tool and Glorp literally for decades without getting any laurels because he "only" carried these milestones forward and kept them working. And there are quite a few people who did amazing things that we tend to forget about. The success of Smalltalk (and even if we are not mainstream, our language has survived for 50 years and will not go anywhere soon, some hyped technologies won't even make 10, not to think of 20 years) is based on the work of so many people. What about Vanessa Freudenberg, The whole Squeak and EToys community, OpenQwaq and scratch? OLPC? What about the authors of the Design Patterns Smalltalk Companion? James Robertson's Podcast was wonderful and I miss it a lot. But he had people on the podcast who also made it a joyful experience: Willow Lucas-Smith and David Buck come to mind. Anybody remember how much energy Randal Schwartz once put into Smalltalk marketing? I have only been in the Smalltalk world for the last 26 years, and everybody I am mentioning here has been working on the foundation that has been built for them a long time before that. Rebecca Wirfs-Brock? Martin Fowler? Eric Clayberg? Joseph Pelrine are just a few names that immediately com to my mind. And I am sure I am forgetting more important names or even never heard of them. We are standing on the shoulders of Giants. Some may even not be aware of what they did. Partly because they have moved on to other languages and communities. Likas Renggli, Julian Fitzell, Vassily Bykov, Michel Bany, Martin Kobetic, many of the Eclipse guys. The list is just too long. Joachim Am 26.07.21 um 06:34 schrieb Richard Sargent: > Tudor Girba and his colleagues at feenk need to be recognized, too. > > In many respects, they have pushed Smalltalk to do things that, I > think, the original designers would have heartily endorsed. > > On Sun, Jul 25, 2021, 18:44 <horrido.hobbies@gmail.com > <mailto:horrido.hobbies@gmail.com>> wrote: > > Thanks to everyone for some great suggestions. > > I’m coming around to the notion that I asked the wrong question. > In the context of Smalltalk’s 50th anniversary, the reason I asked > the question is because I noted that in APL’s 50th anniversary > celebration, they gave an award to the one individual who was > deemed the greatest contributor to APL. So I thought I might do > the same for Smalltalk. > > But now, I’m seeing that was somewhat wrongheaded. Yes, it is the > community that made Smalltalk what it was, and what it is today. > Singling out one individual seems unfair, and rather arbitrary. > > Maybe I’ll conduct a poll with these suggestions and let the > Smalltalk community express their support with their votes. That > may even provide some insight. > -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Objektfabrik Joachim Tuchel mailto:jtuchel@objektfabrik.de Fliederweg 1 http://www.objektfabrik.de D-71640 Ludwigsburg http://joachimtuchel.wordpress.com Telefon: +49 7141 56 10 86 0 Fax: +49 7141 56 10 86 1
S
sean@clipperadams.com
Thu, Jul 29, 2021 4:01 PM

Wow! What a trip down memory lane and I learned some I didn’t know as well. This thread is inspiring in itself :) And I agree with all those named and that there are many more unnamed!

Wow! What a trip down memory lane and I learned some I didn’t know as well. This thread is inspiring in itself :) And I agree with all those named and that there are many more unnamed!