Hi!

this topic pops up from time to time on the mailing list. I want to port a
number of packages to Pharo. I remember "Shaping" asking this for porting
PDFtalk.

1. Is the workflow still up to date or is there a new way of doing things?
2. From what I understand so far, I just need the following package from
   Store:

• Smalltalk Transform Project

3. Is there a page that documents the process process in general?
   https://wiki.pdftalk.de/doku.php?id=setupvisualworks seems to be specific
   for PDFtalk like the thread on this list.

Kind regards,
Steffen

Yes, PDFtalk is the only example, because it was created to port that library. Any other uses are welcome.

The project has been dormant for a year now because of other obligations, but I hope to resume soon.

The documentation is, as Richard notes, in a suboptimal state. I think that the information is still accurate.

Any help with this would be welcome, for example by asking questions or by criticizing concrete issues.

Christian

Von: Richard Sargent richard.sargent@gemtalksystems.com
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 6. April 2023 17:55
An: Any question about pharo is welcome pharo-users@lists.pharo.org
Betreff: [Pharo-users] Re: Porting from VW to Pharo

The best(?) place to start is perhaps https://wiki.pdftalk.de/doku.php?id=smalltalktransform.

The only examples are various ports of PDFtalk (from VisualWorks) to Pharo, Squeak, GemStone, and VAST.

PDFtalk is quite complex and the porting rules are correspondingly complex. The Transform documentation does leave something to be desired.

On Thu, Apr 6, 2023 at 8:22 AM Steffen Märcker <merkste@web.de mailto:merkste@web.de > wrote:

Hi!

this topic pops up from time to time on the mailing list. I want to port a
number of packages to Pharo. I remember "Shaping" asking this for porting
PDFtalk.

1. Is the workflow still up to date or is there a new way of doing things?
2. From what I understand so far, I just need the following package from
   Store:

• Smalltalk Transform Project

3. Is there a page that documents the process process in general?
   https://wiki.pdftalk.de/doku.php?id=setupvisualworks seems to be specific
   for PDFtalk like the thread on this list.

Kind regards,
Steffen

Dear Christian and Richard,

thanks for your answers. I'll try to go through the process step by step and come back with questions to the list if that's okay.

First, after loading the "Pharo Fileout PDFTalk", VW (8.3, 64 Bit) shows two unloadable definitions:

• PostscriptInterpreterTests>>_ph_testOperatorNotFound
• ColorValueTest>>_ph_testBridgedNamedColors
  Both classes are not loaded

Second, it appears that some of the selectors mentioned on https://wiki.pdftalk.de/doku.php?id=smalltalktransformdocumentation have been renamed, e.g., PackageChanges>>unusedClasses

More general, regarding project structure. What is the best approach to port a project that consists of multiple loosely coupled packages (not in a bundle) some of which being optional? Like

• Package Project Core
• Package Project Core Tests (requires Core)
• Package Project Extension A (requires Core)
• Package Project Extension A Tests (requires Extension A)
• Package Project Examples (requires Core and Extension A)

And how should I structure this on the Pharo site and in an iceberg repository? One Git repository per package or all in the same? Is there a guide to this or a specific Mooc lesson?

Kind regards,
Steffen

Christian Haider schrieb am Donnerstag, 6. April 2023 18:16:00 (+02:00):

Yes, PDFtalk is the only example, because it was created to port that library. Any other uses are welcome.

The project has been dormant for a year now because of other obligations, but I hope to resume soon.

The documentation is, as Richard notes, in a suboptimal state. I think that the information is still accurate.

Any help with this would be welcome, for example by asking questions or by criticizing concrete issues.

Christian

Von: Richard Sargent richard.sargent@gemtalksystems.com
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 6. April 2023 17:55
An: Any question about pharo is welcome pharo-users@lists.pharo.org
Betreff: [Pharo-users] Re: Porting from VW to Pharo

The best(?) place to start is perhaps https://wiki.pdftalk.de/doku.php?id=smalltalktransform.

The only examples are various ports of PDFtalk (from VisualWorks) to Pharo, Squeak, GemStone, and VAST.

PDFtalk is quite complex and the porting rules are correspondingly complex. The Transform documentation does leave something to be desired.

On Thu, Apr 6, 2023 at 8:22 AM Steffen Märcker merkste@web.de wrote:

Hi!

this topic pops up from time to time on the mailing list. I want to port a
number of packages to Pharo. I remember "Shaping" asking this for porting
PDFtalk.

1. Is the workflow still up to date or is there a new way of doing things?
2. From what I understand so far, I just need the following package from
   Store:

• Smalltalk Transform Project

3. Is there a page that documents the process process in general?
   https://wiki.pdftalk.de/doku.php?id=setupvisualworks seems to be specific
   for PDFtalk like the thread on this list.

Kind regards,
Steffen

--
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Thanks Stewart, I'll keep that in mind!

Cheers,
Steffen

Stewart MacLean schrieb am Freitag, 7. April 2023 03:18:40 (+02:00):

Hi,

Having been through this process I found I had to completely rewrite the UI side of things - you can either choose to use Morphic, or the more modern Spec overlay. I used this in conjunction with Roassal, as my UI is mainly graphic. It also renders using Cairo, giving it a nice look. I also used Pango to make the text look good too.

You'll need to abandon name spaces. Just prefix your class names as appropriate.

If you've got objects to port SIXX is really useful.

My two cents...

Stew

On Fri, Apr 7, 2023 at 4:16 AM Christian Haider mail@christianhaider.de wrote:

Yes, PDFtalk is the only example, because it was created to port that library. Any other uses are welcome.

The project has been dormant for a year now because of other obligations, but I hope to resume soon.

The documentation is, as Richard notes, in a suboptimal state. I think that the information is still accurate.

Any help with this would be welcome, for example by asking questions or by criticizing concrete issues.

Christian

Von: Richard Sargent richard.sargent@gemtalksystems.com
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 6. April 2023 17:55
An: Any question about pharo is welcome pharo-users@lists.pharo.org
Betreff: [Pharo-users] Re: Porting from VW to Pharo

The best(?) place to start is perhaps https://wiki.pdftalk.de/doku.php?id=smalltalktransform.

The only examples are various ports of PDFtalk (from VisualWorks) to Pharo, Squeak, GemStone, and VAST.

PDFtalk is quite complex and the porting rules are correspondingly complex. The Transform documentation does leave something to be desired.

On Thu, Apr 6, 2023 at 8:22 AM Steffen Märcker merkste@web.de wrote:

Hi!

this topic pops up from time to time on the mailing list. I want to port a
number of packages to Pharo. I remember "Shaping" asking this for porting
PDFtalk.

1. Is the workflow still up to date or is there a new way of doing things?
2. From what I understand so far, I just need the following package from
   Store:

• Smalltalk Transform Project

3. Is there a page that documents the process process in general?
   https://wiki.pdftalk.de/doku.php?id=setupvisualworks seems to be specific
   for PDFtalk like the thread on this list.

Kind regards,
Steffen

--
Gesendet mit Vivaldi Mail. Laden Sie Vivaldi kostenlos von vivaldi.com herunter.

Hi Steffen,

thanks for trying and asking!

I was loading the code needed into a 8.3, 64bit virgin image and realized that loading is not that straight forward and described too briefly.

First, you need a non-default setting for the store prerequisites. I added this to the store access page: https://wiki.pdftalk.de/doku.php?id=storeaccess . It is critical to load the prereqs from store and not from parcels!

The first thing to load is the bundle {Smalltalk Transform Project}.

To see examples you need to load the subject of transformation: PDFtalk.

You need to load to top bundle {PDFtalk Project} which includes the test classes you are missing in your image.

At last, load the [Pharo Fileout PDFtalk] package.

I improved the landing page https://wiki.pdftalk.de/doku.php?id=smalltalktransform a bit to make this clearer.

I just tried and this loads without errors or warnings.

(Actually good that the load did not work for you, because I added a mistake in January which causes a 8.3 image to crash when you open a browser. Sorry for that.)

Now you should be all set for generating a fileout of PDFtalk for Pharo (in the current unfinished state).

Thanks for spotting the problems with the documentation. I will get over it tomorrow.

I am quick in renaming and making structural changes when things are not working as I want… But the docs should be correct, of course.

About the project structure.

Currently, everything belonging to a project, need to be transformed in one go. This is not a big deal, because all code transformations are described on the package level and can be easily recombined as the bundle structure changes.

The last piece of the transformation puzzle is to make the transformations modular, so that the renamings of prerequisite packages can be used without the need to transform the prereqs as well. I hope to get at that soon…

In the meantime, I would start with your Core project to get a feel for the mechanics. I am sure the rest will fall nicely into its places.

About how to structure your code in Pharo with Git, I don’t know much about that. Actually, I would also be interested in some guidelines to bake them into the transformations…

If you are seriously interested, we could have an online session to hack around with it…

Cheers,

            Christian

Von: Steffen Märcker merkste@web.de
Gesendet: Dienstag, 11. April 2023 17:52
An: Any question about pharo is welcome pharo-users@lists.pharo.org
Betreff: [Pharo-users] Re: Porting from VW to Pharo

Dear Christian and Richard,

thanks for your answers. I'll try to go through the process step by step and come back with questions to the list if that's okay.

First, after loading the "Pharo Fileout PDFTalk", VW (8.3, 64 Bit) shows two unloadable definitions:

• PostscriptInterpreterTests>>_ph_testOperatorNotFound
• ColorValueTest>>_ph_testBridgedNamedColors

Both classes are not loaded

Second, it appears that some of the selectors mentioned on https://wiki.pdftalk.de/doku.php?id=smalltalktransformdocumentation have been renamed, e.g., PackageChanges>>unusedClasses

More general, regarding project structure. What is the best approach to port a project that consists of multiple loosely coupled packages (not in a bundle) some of which being optional? Like

• Package Project Core

• Package Project Core Tests (requires Core)

• Package Project Extension A (requires Core)

• Package Project Extension A Tests (requires Extension A)

• Package Project Examples (requires Core and Extension A)

And how should I structure this on the Pharo site and in an iceberg repository? One Git repository per package or all in the same? Is there a guide to this or a specific Mooc lesson?

Kind regards,

Steffen

Christian Haider schrieb am Donnerstag, 6. April 2023 18:16:00 (+02:00):

Yes, PDFtalk is the only example, because it was created to port that library. Any other uses are welcome.

The project has been dormant for a year now because of other obligations, but I hope to resume soon.

The documentation is, as Richard notes, in a suboptimal state. I think that the information is still accurate.

Any help with this would be welcome, for example by asking questions or by criticizing concrete issues.

Christian

Von: Richard Sargent <richard.sargent@gemtalksystems.com mailto:richard.sargent@gemtalksystems.com >
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 6. April 2023 17:55
An: Any question about pharo is welcome <pharo-users@lists.pharo.org mailto:pharo-users@lists.pharo.org >
Betreff: [Pharo-users] Re: Porting from VW to Pharo

The best(?) place to start is perhaps  https://wiki.pdftalk.de/doku.php?id=smalltalktransform https://wiki.pdftalk.de/doku.php?id=smalltalktransform.

The only examples are various ports of PDFtalk (from VisualWorks) to Pharo, Squeak, GemStone, and VAST.

PDFtalk is quite complex and the porting rules are correspondingly complex. The Transform documentation does leave something to be desired.

On Thu, Apr 6, 2023 at 8:22 AM Steffen Märcker < mailto:merkste@web.de merkste@web.de> wrote:

Hi!

this topic pops up from time to time on the mailing list. I want to port a
number of packages to Pharo. I remember "Shaping" asking this for porting
PDFtalk.

1. Is the workflow still up to date or is there a new way of doing things?
2. From what I understand so far, I just need the following package from
   Store:

• Smalltalk Transform Project

3. Is there a page that documents the process process in general?
   https://wiki.pdftalk.de/doku.php?id=setupvisualworks https://wiki.pdftalk.de/doku.php?id=setupvisualworks seems to be specific
   for PDFtalk like the thread on this list.

Kind regards,
Steffen

--
Gesendet mit Vivaldi Mail. Laden Sie Vivaldi kostenlos von vivaldi.com herunter.

Hi Christian,

I am working slowly through the required changes. Thanks for your comprehensive answer. When I have made some more progress, I think having a call would be nice. I'll try loading the package again from store later today.

One quick question:
As far as I understand, to extend classes in the target dialect with methods that are not extended in the source project, I have to define a System class change like this:

SystemClassChange
	className: #Color
	instanceChanges: (Array with: (Add method: #asColorValue code: #_ph_asColorValue)

The actual code for the extension has to be implemented in CodeHolder, correct? How do I deal then with methods that need to access instance variables not present in CodeHolder? Just add them to the class or is there another way?

Kind regards,
Steffen

Christian Haider schrieb am Mittwoch, 12. April 2023 21:07:05 (+02:00):

Hi Steffen,

thanks for trying and asking!

I was loading the code needed into a 8.3, 64bit virgin image and realized that loading is not that straight forward and described too briefly.

First, you need a non-default setting for the store prerequisites. I added this to the store access page: https://wiki.pdftalk.de/doku.php?id=storeaccess . It is critical to load the prereqs from store and not from parcels!

The first thing to load is the bundle {Smalltalk Transform Project}.

To see examples you need to load the subject of transformation: PDFtalk.

You need to load to top bundle {PDFtalk Project} which includes the test classes you are missing in your image.

At last, load the [Pharo Fileout PDFtalk] package.

I improved the landing page https://wiki.pdftalk.de/doku.php?id=smalltalktransform a bit to make this clearer.

I just tried and this loads without errors or warnings.

(Actually good that the load did not work for you, because I added a mistake in January which causes a 8.3 image to crash when you open a browser. Sorry for that.)

Now you should be all set for generating a fileout of PDFtalk for Pharo (in the current unfinished state).

Thanks for spotting the problems with the documentation. I will get over it tomorrow.

I am quick in renaming and making structural changes when things are not working as I want… But the docs should be correct, of course.

About the project structure.

Currently, everything belonging to a project, need to be transformed in one go. This is not a big deal, because all code transformations are described on the package level and can be easily recombined as the bundle structure changes.

The last piece of the transformation puzzle is to make the transformations modular, so that the renamings of prerequisite packages can be used without the need to transform the prereqs as well. I hope to get at that soon…

In the meantime, I would start with your Core project to get a feel for the mechanics. I am sure the rest will fall nicely into its places.

About how to structure your code in Pharo with Git, I don’t know much about that. Actually, I would also be interested in some guidelines to bake them into the transformations…

If you are seriously interested, we could have an online session to hack around with it…

Cheers,

            Christian

Von: Steffen Märcker merkste@web.de
Gesendet: Dienstag, 11. April 2023 17:52
An: Any question about pharo is welcome pharo-users@lists.pharo.org
Betreff: [Pharo-users] Re: Porting from VW to Pharo

Dear Christian and Richard,

thanks for your answers. I'll try to go through the process step by step and come back with questions to the list if that's okay.

First, after loading the "Pharo Fileout PDFTalk", VW (8.3, 64 Bit) shows two unloadable definitions:

• PostscriptInterpreterTests>>_ph_testOperatorNotFound
• ColorValueTest>>_ph_testBridgedNamedColors

Both classes are not loaded

Second, it appears that some of the selectors mentioned on https://wiki.pdftalk.de/doku.php?id=smalltalktransformdocumentation have been renamed, e.g., PackageChanges>>unusedClasses

More general, regarding project structure. What is the best approach to port a project that consists of multiple loosely coupled packages (not in a bundle) some of which being optional? Like

• Package Project Core

• Package Project Core Tests (requires Core)

• Package Project Extension A (requires Core)

• Package Project Extension A Tests (requires Extension A)

• Package Project Examples (requires Core and Extension A)

And how should I structure this on the Pharo site and in an iceberg repository? One Git repository per package or all in the same? Is there a guide to this or a specific Mooc lesson?

Kind regards,

Steffen

Christian Haider schrieb am Donnerstag, 6. April 2023 18:16:00 (+02:00):

Yes, PDFtalk is the only example, because it was created to port that library. Any other uses are welcome.

The project has been dormant for a year now because of other obligations, but I hope to resume soon.

The documentation is, as Richard notes, in a suboptimal state. I think that the information is still accurate.

Any help with this would be welcome, for example by asking questions or by criticizing concrete issues.

Christian

Von: Richard Sargent richard.sargent@gemtalksystems.com
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 6. April 2023 17:55
An: Any question about pharo is welcome pharo-users@lists.pharo.org
Betreff: [Pharo-users] Re: Porting from VW to Pharo

The best(?) place to start is perhaps https://wiki.pdftalk.de/doku.php?id=smalltalktransform.

The only examples are various ports of PDFtalk (from VisualWorks) to Pharo, Squeak, GemStone, and VAST.

PDFtalk is quite complex and the porting rules are correspondingly complex. The Transform documentation does leave something to be desired.

On Thu, Apr 6, 2023 at 8:22 AM Steffen Märcker merkste@web.de wrote:

Hi!

this topic pops up from time to time on the mailing list. I want to port a
number of packages to Pharo. I remember "Shaping" asking this for porting
PDFtalk.

1. Is the workflow still up to date or is there a new way of doing things?
2. From what I understand so far, I just need the following package from
   Store:

• Smalltalk Transform Project

3. Is there a page that documents the process process in general?
   https://wiki.pdftalk.de/doku.php?id=setupvisualworks seems to be specific
   for PDFtalk like the thread on this list.

Kind regards,
Steffen

--
Gesendet mit Vivaldi Mail. Laden Sie Vivaldi kostenlos von vivaldi.com herunter.

--
Gesendet mit Vivaldi Mail. Laden Sie Vivaldi kostenlos von vivaldi.com herunter.

Great, you perfectly understood the CodeHolder!

Instance variables not present? Leave them undeclared.

Since that code never runs in this image, it does no harm. It just fills your Undeclareds list.

Here is an example where I extend an existing class referencing a variable (#array) only available in the target dialect:

Happy hacking,

            Christian

Von: Steffen Märcker merkste@web.de
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 13. April 2023 10:41
An: Any question about pharo is welcome pharo-users@lists.pharo.org
Betreff: [Pharo-users] Re: Porting from VW to Pharo

Hi Christian,

I am working slowly through the required changes. Thanks for your comprehensive answer. When I have made some more progress, I think having a call would be nice. I'll try loading the package again from store later today.

One quick question:

As far as I understand, to extend classes in the target dialect with methods that are not extended in the source project, I have to define a System class change like this:

            SystemClassChange

                           className: #Color

                           instanceChanges: (Array with: (Add method: #asColorValue code: #_ph_asColorValue)

The actual code for the extension has to be implemented in CodeHolder, correct? How do I deal then with methods that need to access instance variables not present in CodeHolder? Just add them to the class or is there another way?

Kind regards,

Steffen

Christian Haider schrieb am Mittwoch, 12. April 2023 21:07:05 (+02:00):

Hi Steffen,

thanks for trying and asking!

I was loading the code needed into a 8.3, 64bit virgin image and realized that loading is not that straight forward and described too briefly.

First, you need a non-default setting for the store prerequisites. I added this to the store access page:  https://wiki.pdftalk.de/doku.php?id=storeaccess https://wiki.pdftalk.de/doku.php?id=storeaccess . It is critical to load the prereqs from store and not from parcels!

The first thing to load is the bundle {Smalltalk Transform Project}.

To see examples you need to load the subject of transformation: PDFtalk.

You need to load to top bundle {PDFtalk Project} which includes the test classes you are missing in your image.

At last, load the [Pharo Fileout PDFtalk] package.

I improved the landing page  https://wiki.pdftalk.de/doku.php?id=smalltalktransform https://wiki.pdftalk.de/doku.php?id=smalltalktransform a bit to make this clearer.

I just tried and this loads without errors or warnings.

(Actually good that the load did not work for you, because I added a mistake in January which causes a 8.3 image to crash when you open a browser. Sorry for that.)

Now you should be all set for generating a fileout of PDFtalk for Pharo (in the current unfinished state).

Thanks for spotting the problems with the documentation. I will get over it tomorrow.

I am quick in renaming and making structural changes when things are not working as I want… But the docs should be correct, of course.

About the project structure.

Currently, everything belonging to a project, need to be transformed in one go. This is not a big deal, because all code transformations are described on the package level and can be easily recombined as the bundle structure changes.

The last piece of the transformation puzzle is to make the transformations modular, so that the renamings of prerequisite packages can be used without the need to transform the prereqs as well. I hope to get at that soon…

In the meantime, I would start with your Core project to get a feel for the mechanics. I am sure the rest will fall nicely into its places.

About how to structure your code in Pharo with Git, I don’t know much about that. Actually, I would also be interested in some guidelines to bake them into the transformations…

If you are seriously interested, we could have an online session to hack around with it…

Cheers,

            Christian

Von: Steffen Märcker <merkste@web.de mailto:merkste@web.de >
Gesendet: Dienstag, 11. April 2023 17:52
An: Any question about pharo is welcome < mailto:pharo-users@lists.pharo.org pharo-users@lists.pharo.org>
Betreff: [Pharo-users] Re: Porting from VW to Pharo

Dear Christian and Richard,

thanks for your answers. I'll try to go through the process step by step and come back with questions to the list if that's okay.

First, after loading the "Pharo Fileout PDFTalk", VW (8.3, 64 Bit) shows two unloadable definitions:

• PostscriptInterpreterTests>>_ph_testOperatorNotFound
• ColorValueTest>>_ph_testBridgedNamedColors

Both classes are not loaded

Second, it appears that some of the selectors mentioned on  https://wiki.pdftalk.de/doku.php?id=smalltalktransformdocumentation https://wiki.pdftalk.de/doku.php?id=smalltalktransformdocumentation have been renamed, e.g., PackageChanges>>unusedClasses

More general, regarding project structure. What is the best approach to port a project that consists of multiple loosely coupled packages (not in a bundle) some of which being optional? Like

• Package Project Core

• Package Project Core Tests (requires Core)

• Package Project Extension A (requires Core)

• Package Project Extension A Tests (requires Extension A)

• Package Project Examples (requires Core and Extension A)

And how should I structure this on the Pharo site and in an iceberg repository? One Git repository per package or all in the same? Is there a guide to this or a specific Mooc lesson?

Kind regards,

Steffen

Christian Haider schrieb am Donnerstag, 6. April 2023 18:16:00 (+02:00):

Yes, PDFtalk is the only example, because it was created to port that library. Any other uses are welcome.

The project has been dormant for a year now because of other obligations, but I hope to resume soon.

The documentation is, as Richard notes, in a suboptimal state. I think that the information is still accurate.

Any help with this would be welcome, for example by asking questions or by criticizing concrete issues.

Christian

Von: Richard Sargent < mailto:richard.sargent@gemtalksystems.com richard.sargent@gemtalksystems.com>
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 6. April 2023 17:55
An: Any question about pharo is welcome < mailto:pharo-users@lists.pharo.org pharo-users@lists.pharo.org>
Betreff: [Pharo-users] Re: Porting from VW to Pharo

The best(?) place to start is perhaps  https://wiki.pdftalk.de/doku.php?id=smalltalktransform https://wiki.pdftalk.de/doku.php?id=smalltalktransform.

The only examples are various ports of PDFtalk (from VisualWorks) to Pharo, Squeak, GemStone, and VAST.

PDFtalk is quite complex and the porting rules are correspondingly complex. The Transform documentation does leave something to be desired.

On Thu, Apr 6, 2023 at 8:22 AM Steffen Märcker < mailto:merkste@web.de merkste@web.de> wrote:

Hi!

this topic pops up from time to time on the mailing list. I want to port a
number of packages to Pharo. I remember "Shaping" asking this for porting
PDFtalk.

1. Is the workflow still up to date or is there a new way of doing things?
2. From what I understand so far, I just need the following package from
   Store:

• Smalltalk Transform Project

3. Is there a page that documents the process process in general?
   https://wiki.pdftalk.de/doku.php?id=setupvisualworks https://wiki.pdftalk.de/doku.php?id=setupvisualworks seems to be specific
   for PDFtalk like the thread on this list.

Kind regards,
Steffen

--
Gesendet mit Vivaldi Mail. Laden Sie Vivaldi kostenlos von vivaldi.com herunter.

--
Gesendet mit Vivaldi Mail. Laden Sie Vivaldi kostenlos von vivaldi.com herunter.