Just to chip in here - the work demonstrated on Pharo development is inspirational. Rather than throwing everything away, it shows the alternative - incrementally improving a running platform - and practicing what we preach in industry by refactoring a large elderly code base bit by bit - it's remarkable. While its true we don’t always immediately get things fixed that we might personally want, but then again we are relying on the free personal time of others. But collectively, the most important things do get fixed/improved, and if there is something that really bothers you, then the over arching lesson is that you have to roll up your sleaves and try and fix it yourself and in showing willingness you normally find that others will help you. So Steph et al, I am glad that you love this platform (and have for many years), but more startlingly - i heard you all talk about a vision of improvements back in Lugano many years ago… and gosh we are seeing those improvements roll out year after year. Even more - we are slowly getting the kind of development/experiment workbench platform that good developers should have. Its being invented under our eyes, and that is exciting. So I hope you dont feel dispondent - I think history viewed over a longer period will actually show a more positive picture. Tim On Fri, 11 Dec 2020, at 9:20 PM, Stéphane Ducasse wrote: > It depends how old. > We cannot do magic. > In particular, if more people would help fixing simple things in Pharo we would then have the time for more boring and challenging issues. > Because in my personal case, I’m not paid to develop and lead Pharo dev. > My own carrer and CV do not depend on Pharo and in fact I could publish much more > and look much smarter without it. > > S. > > > >> But if it doesn't work on older machines (if that is the case) then that's >> still a bug, isn't it? >> >> >> >> -- >> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html > > -------------------------------------------- > Stéphane Ducasse > http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr / http://www.pharo.org > 03 59 35 87 52 > Assistant: Aurore Dalle > FAX 03 59 57 78 50 > TEL 03 59 35 86 16 > S. Ducasse - Inria > 40, avenue Halley, > Parc Scientifique de la Haute Borne, Bât.A, Park Plaza > Villeneuve d'Ascq 59650 > France

It is a bug when you have a lot of budget. Luckily we have the monthly sprints :). Participants are always more than welcome. You can join and participate to fix these things the last friday of each month! I can sit with you and pair program. I am not sure if this month we have sprint, since it is by the christmas dates probably. Marcus, do we have sprint in december? Anyway, as soon as I know i'll let you know. If it is not this this month it can be in january! It seems far but time pass really fast :). Looking forward, Santiago El vie, 11 dic 2020 a las 16:05, kmo (<voxkmp@gmail.com>) escribió: > But if it doesn't work on older machines (if that is the case) then that's > still a bug, isn't it? > > > > -- > Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html >

> On 12 Dec 2020, at 11:05, Tim Mackinnon <tim@testit.works> wrote: > > Just to chip in here - the work demonstrated on Pharo development is inspirational. Rather than throwing everything away, it shows the alternative - incrementally improving a running platform - and practicing what we preach in industry by refactoring a large elderly code base bit by bit - it's remarkable. > > While its true we don’t always immediately get things fixed that we might personally want, but then again we are relying on the free personal time of others. But collectively, the most important things do get fixed/improved, and if there is something that really bothers you, then the over arching lesson is that you have to roll up your sleaves and try and fix it yourself and in showing willingness you normally find that others will help you. > > So Steph et al, I am glad that you love this platform (and have for many years), but more startlingly - i heard you all talk about a vision of improvements back in Lugano many years ago… and gosh we are seeing those improvements roll out year after year. Even more - we are slowly getting the kind of development/experiment workbench platform that good developers should have. Its being invented under our eyes, and that is exciting. :) > So I hope you dont feel dispondent - I think history viewed over a longer period will actually show a more positive picture. I’m pretty sure it will :) Because we know where we want to go and this is nice :) Thanks a lot tim. And we will continue :) > > Tim > > > > On Fri, 11 Dec 2020, at 9:20 PM, Stéphane Ducasse wrote: >> It depends how old. >> We cannot do magic. >> In particular, if more people would help fixing simple things in Pharo we would then have the time for more boring and challenging issues. >> Because in my personal case, I’m not paid to develop and lead Pharo dev. >> My own carrer and CV do not depend on Pharo and in fact I could publish much more >> and look much smarter without it. >> >> S. >> >> >> >>> But if it doesn't work on older machines (if that is the case) then that's >>> still a bug, isn't it? >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html <http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html> >> >> >> -------------------------------------------- >> Stéphane Ducasse >> http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr <http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr/> / http://www.pharo.org <http://www.pharo.org/> >> 03 59 35 87 52 >> Assistant: Aurore Dalle >> FAX 03 59 57 78 50 >> TEL 03 59 35 86 16 >> S. Ducasse - Inria >> 40, avenue Halley, >> Parc Scientifique de la Haute Borne, Bât.A, Park Plaza >> Villeneuve d'Ascq 59650 >> France -------------------------------------------- Stéphane Ducasse http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr / http://www.pharo.org 03 59 35 87 52 Assistant: Aurore Dalle FAX 03 59 57 78 50 TEL 03 59 35 86 16 S. Ducasse - Inria 40, avenue Halley, Parc Scientifique de la Haute Borne, Bât.A, Park Plaza Villeneuve d'Ascq 59650 France

> On 12 Dec 2020, at 17:08, Santiago Bragagnolo <santiagobragagnolo@gmail.com> wrote: > > It is a bug when you have a lot of budget. Luckily we have the monthly sprints :). > Participants are always more than welcome. You can join and participate to fix these things the last friday of each month! > I can sit with you and pair program. > I am not sure if this month we have sprint, since it is by the christmas dates probably. > Marcus, do we have sprint in december? yes next friday :) > Anyway, as soon as I know i'll let you know. If it is not this this month it can be in january! It seems far but time pass really fast :). > > Looking forward, > > Santiago > > > > > El vie, 11 dic 2020 a las 16:05, kmo (<voxkmp@gmail.com <mailto:voxkmp@gmail.com>>) escribió: > But if it doesn't work on older machines (if that is the case) then that's > still a bug, isn't it? > > > > -- > Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html <http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html> -------------------------------------------- Stéphane Ducasse http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr / http://www.pharo.org 03 59 35 87 52 Assistant: Aurore Dalle FAX 03 59 57 78 50 TEL 03 59 35 86 16 S. Ducasse - Inria 40, avenue Halley, Parc Scientifique de la Haute Borne, Bât.A, Park Plaza Villeneuve d'Ascq 59650 France

Hi, Just to add a little bit to Tim's remark, I'm pretty happy that Pharo academicians, starting with Stéphane, value more making a real difference in the world, via delivering working and improving software, that talking about the theoretical possible changes when paper's "conclusions further possibilities and studies" will be applied, developed and widely understood (it's also a pretty uncommon path followed by Lua academician's at Rio University.) In a world of mostly self-serving academia trapped in the game of papers publishing and metrics only valuable inside academia, is good to have academicians breaking the novelty fetiche spell and preferring _being_ smarter and empathic with continuous delivery, improvements and broad community building, instead just _looking_ smarter, via papers publishing and ego inflation inside the Ivory Tower. Thanks again Stephan and other Pharo academicians to show us a glimpse of what academia could be when priorities are put in proper places. Offray On 12/12/20 5:05 a. m., Tim Mackinnon wrote: > Just to chip in here - the work demonstrated on Pharo development is > inspirational. Rather than throwing everything away, it shows the > alternative - incrementally improving a running platform - and > practicing what we preach in industry by refactoring a large elderly > code base bit by bit - it's remarkable. > > While its true we don’t always immediately get things fixed that we > might personally want, but then again we are relying on the free > personal time of others. But collectively, the most important things > do get fixed/improved, and if there is something that really bothers > you, then the over arching lesson is that you have to roll up your > sleaves and try and fix it yourself and in showing willingness you > normally find that others will help you. > > So Steph et al, I am glad that you love this platform (and have for > many years), but more startlingly - i heard you all talk about a > vision of improvements back in Lugano many years ago… and gosh we are > seeing those improvements roll out year after year. Even more - we are > slowly getting the kind of development/experiment workbench platform > that good developers should have. Its being invented under our eyes, > and that is exciting. > > So I hope you dont feel dispondent - I think history viewed over a > longer period will actually show a more positive picture. > > Tim > > > > On Fri, 11 Dec 2020, at 9:20 PM, Stéphane Ducasse wrote: >> It depends how old.  >> We cannot do magic.  >> In particular, if more people would help fixing simple things in >> Pharo we would then have the time for more boring and challenging issues. >> Because in my personal case, I’m not paid to develop and lead Pharo dev.  >> My own carrer and CV do not depend on Pharo and in fact I could >> publish much more  >> and look much smarter without it.  >> >> S.  >> >> >> >>> But if it doesn't work on older machines (if that is the case) then >>> that's >>> still a bug, isn't it? >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html >>> <http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html> >> >> -------------------------------------------- >> Stéphane Ducasse >> http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr <http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr> / >> http://www.pharo.org <http://www.pharo.org>  >> 03 59 35 87 52 >> Assistant: Aurore Dalle  >> FAX 03 59 57 78 50 >> TEL 03 59 35 86 16 >> S. Ducasse - Inria >> 40, avenue Halley,  >> Parc Scientifique de la Haute Borne, Bât.A, Park Plaza >> Villeneuve d'Ascq 59650 >> France >

tx offray Lua is an inspiration from that perspective. Now we play the game because publishing is also a nice way to understand what we are doing and because this is important to play the game else we would be considered as losers. S. > On 12 Dec 2020, at 19:20, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas <offray.luna@mutabit.com> wrote: > > Hi, > > Just to add a little bit to Tim's remark, I'm pretty happy that Pharo academicians, starting with Stéphane, value more making a real difference in the world, via delivering working and improving software, that talking about the theoretical possible changes when paper's "conclusions further possibilities and studies" will be applied, developed and widely understood (it's also a pretty uncommon path followed by Lua academician's at Rio University.) > > In a world of mostly self-serving academia trapped in the game of papers publishing and metrics only valuable inside academia, is good to have academicians breaking the novelty fetiche spell and preferring _being_ smarter and empathic with continuous delivery, improvements and broad community building, instead just _looking_ smarter, via papers publishing and ego inflation inside the Ivory Tower. > > Thanks again Stephan and other Pharo academicians to show us a glimpse of what academia could be when priorities are put in proper places. > > Offray > > On 12/12/20 5:05 a. m., Tim Mackinnon wrote: >> Just to chip in here - the work demonstrated on Pharo development is inspirational. Rather than throwing everything away, it shows the alternative - incrementally improving a running platform - and practicing what we preach in industry by refactoring a large elderly code base bit by bit - it's remarkable. >> >> While its true we don’t always immediately get things fixed that we might personally want, but then again we are relying on the free personal time of others. But collectively, the most important things do get fixed/improved, and if there is something that really bothers you, then the over arching lesson is that you have to roll up your sleaves and try and fix it yourself and in showing willingness you normally find that others will help you. >> >> So Steph et al, I am glad that you love this platform (and have for many years), but more startlingly - i heard you all talk about a vision of improvements back in Lugano many years ago… and gosh we are seeing those improvements roll out year after year. Even more - we are slowly getting the kind of development/experiment workbench platform that good developers should have. Its being invented under our eyes, and that is exciting. >> >> So I hope you dont feel dispondent - I think history viewed over a longer period will actually show a more positive picture. >> >> Tim >> >> >> >> On Fri, 11 Dec 2020, at 9:20 PM, Stéphane Ducasse wrote: >>> It depends how old. >>> We cannot do magic. >>> In particular, if more people would help fixing simple things in Pharo we would then have the time for more boring and challenging issues. >>> Because in my personal case, I’m not paid to develop and lead Pharo dev. >>> My own carrer and CV do not depend on Pharo and in fact I could publish much more >>> and look much smarter without it. >>> >>> S. >>> >>> >>> >>>> But if it doesn't work on older machines (if that is the case) then that's >>>> still a bug, isn't it? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html <http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html> >>> >>> >>> -------------------------------------------- >>> Stéphane Ducasse >>> http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr <http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr/> / http://www.pharo.org <http://www.pharo.org/> >>> 03 59 35 87 52 >>> Assistant: Aurore Dalle >>> FAX 03 59 57 78 50 >>> TEL 03 59 35 86 16 >>> S. Ducasse - Inria >>> 40, avenue Halley, >>> Parc Scientifique de la Haute Borne, Bât.A, Park Plaza >>> Villeneuve d'Ascq 59650 >>> France -------------------------------------------- Stéphane Ducasse http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr / http://www.pharo.org 03 59 35 87 52 Assistant: Aurore Dalle FAX 03 59 57 78 50 TEL 03 59 35 86 16 S. Ducasse - Inria 40, avenue Halley, Parc Scientifique de la Haute Borne, Bât.A, Park Plaza Villeneuve d'Ascq 59650 France

Esteban is trying to understand why he cannot register to this mailing-list and he asked me to past the following so I do it. "first, as Stef says we cannot do magic and SpecGtk relies on Gtk3. More specific, it relies in a specific version of Gtk3, in this case you need Gtk 3.24 or newer. if you have an older linux version, is likely you also have an older Gtk3 version... hence the crash. this is not a bug but I agree we need to add a version validation to not crash but instead show a message” Stef

Marcus

> On 12 Dec 2020, at 17:08, Santiago Bragagnolo <santiagobragagnolo@gmail.com> wrote: > > It is a bug when you have a lot of budget. Luckily we have the monthly sprints :). > Participants are always more than welcome. You can join and participate to fix these things the last friday of each month! > I can sit with you and pair program. > I am not sure if this month we have sprint, since it is by the christmas dates probably. > Marcus, do we have sprint in december? This friday… I will send the announce mail. > Anyway, as soon as I know i'll let you know. If it is not this this month it can be in january! It seems far but time pass really fast :). > And I will check the next 6 month sprint planning. Marcus

The bug does not appear to be because I'm using an old version of Gtk. if I type dpkg -l libgtk2.0-0 libgtk-3-0 I get : +++-=================-================-============-===========================> ii libgtk-3-0:amd64 3.24.20-0ubuntu1 amd64 GTK graphical user interfac> ii libgtk2.0-0:amd64 2.24.32-4ubuntu4 amd64 GTK graphical user interfac> lines 1-7/7 (END) So I'm using 3.24.20 - which should be OK. I have added the above comment to the relevant issue on github: https://github.com/pharo-spec/gtk-bindings/issues/1 I think the issues log is perhaps the better place to discuss the issue rather than this message list. -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html