[Pharo-users] An Idea for a minimal self documented begineer friendly pharo image

Dimitris Chloupis kilon.alios at gmail.com
Wed May 25 06:45:43 EDT 2016


there is intersection afterall interactive documentation is the holy grail
of documentation. I would love to have that. I was thinking making my
Prometheas project not just a a bunch of pillar files but also an internal
tool inside pharo that can show you titles of chapters of documentation
which will link to the htmls produced by pillar in several books and open a
web browser so the pharo users seens the very latest of documentation in a
application he is very familiar with web browser. That should be easy
enough to do.

Your approach and tools can play the role of interactive tutorials , like
ProfStef but of course with far more flexibility. So I would love to be
kept up to date to your progress and I am definetly very interested. Thank
you for bringing this to my attention I will definetly include it in
Prometheus.

On Wed, May 25, 2016 at 12:16 AM Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas <
offray.luna at mutabit.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Nice to see this efforts.
>
> I will try to help with my interactive notebook documentation project for
> reproducible/open research and by making visualization for more diverse
> fields, mainly data activism: Panama Papers[1], Political
> discourses[2](should be updated), but also medicines [3]. Also I'm making
> some builders to make more easy specific domain visualizations and
> re-reading, this time deeply, the Agile Visualization book and making some
> comments (i.e [4][5])
>
> [1] http://mutabit.com/offray/blog/en/entry/panama-papers-1
> [2]
> http://mutabit.com/offray/static/blog/output/posts/visualizing-politicianspolitical-discourses-on-twitter.html
> [3] http://mutabit.com/offray/blog/en/entry/sdv-infomed
> [4]
> https://hyp.is/8hHnlCHzEeaIfiOOWSL11w/dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/31543901/AgileVisualization/QuickStart/0101-QuickStart.html
> [5]
> https://hyp.is/44eZbiHxEeaykduI7FzoXQ/dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/31543901/AgileVisualization/QuickStart/0101-QuickStart.html
>
> I just tell this because at some point could be an
> intersection/complementarity from the documentation point and helps to have
> this overview of where people is focused and trying to contribute. I don't
> know if there is a place where interested can find where other people is
> doing that is not properly software (or is not integrated yet into
> software)... kind of related project/interest in Pharo.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Offray
>
>
> On 24/05/16 15:55, Dimitris Chloupis wrote:
>
> WOW I did not expect so many replies
>
> Its amazing you guys work on a minimal image, since that is the case I
> will wait for you experts to deliver and instead as you advise me Esteban I
> will focus my effort on documentation, it looks like I have come to a
> decision to contribute to pharo in 3 ways
>
> 1) Make a theme for pharo which is very modern flexible and super easy to
> customise to whatever one wants, a theme to rule them all -> Nireas (its
> there but needs a lot of improvement)
> 2) Make an API for Blender that will allow pharo developers to take
> advantage of Blender awesome graphics capabilities -> Ephestos (same as
> above)
> 3) Contribute to documentation both via pillar and class and method
> comments. -> Prometheas (same as above)
>
> I am sure the minimal image that you will provide will be perfect for my
> needs. I dont mind size per se, just system complexity.
>
> I agree again with you Esteban that it would be better to let the
> maintaince of a minimal image to pharo devs since I think we are all in the
> same page and instead tackle areas of my expertise like graphics, theme and
> documentation.
>
> I was just thinking how I could help Pharo the best way and I think these
> 3 projects are more than enough to keep me occupied.
>
> The linked image you posted does not open after I download it and unzip
> it. Does it require a special VM or is it something else ?
>
> On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 5:28 PM Thierry Goubier <thierry.goubier at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> 2016-05-24 16:18 GMT+02:00 Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm at gmail.com>:
>>
>>>
>>> On 24 May 2016, at 16:11, Thierry Goubier <thierry.goubier at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 2016-05-24 15:18 GMT+02:00 Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.alios at gmail.com>:
>>>
>>>> Well technically the python part works fine, BUT I also always wanted
>>>> it to be friendly to begineers . So nope , its same project. And you are
>>>> correct its still focused in coding 3d graphics but I came to realisation
>>>> that if I want some people to use it, obviously i dont expect the massive
>>>> majority to give up the comforts of python but for those that are curious I
>>>> have to provide an enviroment thats is even easier to code in than python
>>>> is currently for Blender.
>>>>
>>>> My goal is to provide a development enviroment for Blender addons that
>>>> is simple, and easy to use and learn.
>>>>
>>>> So providing a minimal pharo image that is self documented has always
>>>> being a dream for Ephestos.
>>>>
>>>> By the way whats the news on the matter of modular pharo image ? Is
>>>> there any work done to provide a minimal pharo image ?
>>>>
>>>
>>> There is a minimal image, which is I think usable as-is, except that
>>> what you want is something in between the minimal image (no gui, no tools)
>>> and a full image, and that is a bit complex to set-up.
>>>
>>> I started some work on doing that with Pharo4 (put a place with
>>> baselines I could use to load the HEAD of the Pharo main repository and
>>> load the right packages), but Pharo5 changed the way external projects are
>>> included, and my approach wasn't good anymore.
>>>
>>> I think the overall Pharo organisation could benefit from such an
>>> effort; it would exercise all the planned mechanisms for the modular image,
>>> in maybe an easier way than a modular full image, and with someone
>>> motivated to debug and maintain the process: you!
>>>
>>>
>>> honestly, I wouldn’t.
>>> working in a parallel image is too much work (believe me, I know
>>> something about keeping an image going).
>>>
>>
>> Well, I am technically working in a parallel image for the past ... 3
>> years ? So, no, as long as you handle a changing minimal image and a well
>> mastered set of slow changing packages over it, it is doable.
>>
>> The base Pharo isn't changing much. As long as you don't use what is
>> changing a lot, then this is doable. Maintaining changes all over all the
>> fast moving packages that are in the full Pharo, then I agree with you,
>> Esteban.
>>
>>
>>> Pavel and Christophe are working on the bootstrap process who should be
>>> working in one-two months, with that, building custom images will be
>>> finally a reality…from there you might want to give it a try.
>>>
>>
>> This, given the timeframe, is both an excellent suggestion and good to
>> know :)
>>
>>
>>> But I would better invest on document (something that you have been
>>> doing very well and I’m very thankful for that) than in keeping alive what
>>> is, in fact, a fork.
>>>
>>
>> Racing to document all the fast moving packages in Pharo can really be a
>> challenge, still.
>>
>> Thierry
>>
>>
>>>
>>> cheers,
>>> Esteban
>>>
>>>
>>> Thierry
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I would hate to replicate what is already done.
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 3:59 PM Ben Coman <btc at openinworld.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 7:01 PM, Dimitris Chloupis
>>>>> <kilon.alios at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> > So I was reading the complains from Sven and got Inspiration from
>>>>> Torsten
>>>>> > Pharo image and CUIs and made me wonder what if we had an image
>>>>> which has
>>>>> > the least amount of libraries and every library inside it is full
>>>>> commented
>>>>> > in class, package and method and even has tutorial using inside help
>>>>> tool.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > So I think I will give this project a try. I know there is a plan to
>>>>> make
>>>>> > pharo image more modular, but modularity does not equal minimalism ,
>>>>> > simplicity and ease of use.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > I think I will follow the CUIs example and do the development via
>>>>> Github.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > But I am open to ideas and suggestions.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > My intention is to remove the excess fat, to make Pharo prettier
>>>>> (improve
>>>>> > theme support and make available several themes ) and to have
>>>>> everything
>>>>> > commented and self documented.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Obviously this will be a long term project and in no way a walk in
>>>>> the park
>>>>> > but I was looking for a nice project to name "Ephestos" :D seem as
>>>>> good as
>>>>> > any
>>>>>
>>>>> Did this project not pane out?...
>>>>>
>>>>> https://pharoweekly.wordpress.com/2014/07/16/ephestos-using-and-coding-blender-from-inside-pharo/
>>>>>
>>>>> Seems you're quite attached to that name :)
>>>>> but is there a minor chance of confusion?
>>>>>
>>>>> cheers -ben
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>
>
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