[Pharo-users] An Idea for a minimal self documented begineer friendly pharo image
Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas
offray.luna at mutabit.com
Tue May 24 17:15:32 EDT 2016
Nice to see this efforts.
I will try to help with my interactive notebook documentation project
for reproducible/open research and by making visualization for more
diverse fields, mainly data activism: Panama Papers, Political
discourses(should be updated), but also medicines . Also I'm
making some builders to make more easy specific domain visualizations
and re-reading, this time deeply, the Agile Visualization book and
making some comments (i.e )
I just tell this because at some point could be an
intersection/complementarity from the documentation point and helps to
have this overview of where people is focused and trying to contribute.
I don't know if there is a place where interested can find where other
people is doing that is not properly software (or is not integrated yet
into software)... kind of related project/interest in Pharo.
On 24/05/16 15:55, Dimitris Chloupis wrote:
> WOW I did not expect so many replies
> Its amazing you guys work on a minimal image, since that is the case I
> will wait for you experts to deliver and instead as you advise me
> Esteban I will focus my effort on documentation, it looks like I have
> come to a decision to contribute to pharo in 3 ways
> 1) Make a theme for pharo which is very modern flexible and super easy
> to customise to whatever one wants, a theme to rule them all -> Nireas
> (its there but needs a lot of improvement)
> 2) Make an API for Blender that will allow pharo developers to take
> advantage of Blender awesome graphics capabilities -> Ephestos (same
> as above)
> 3) Contribute to documentation both via pillar and class and method
> comments. -> Prometheas (same as above)
> I am sure the minimal image that you will provide will be perfect for
> my needs. I dont mind size per se, just system complexity.
> I agree again with you Esteban that it would be better to let the
> maintaince of a minimal image to pharo devs since I think we are all
> in the same page and instead tackle areas of my expertise like
> graphics, theme and documentation.
> I was just thinking how I could help Pharo the best way and I think
> these 3 projects are more than enough to keep me occupied.
> The linked image you posted does not open after I download it and
> unzip it. Does it require a special VM or is it something else ?
> On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 5:28 PM Thierry Goubier
> <thierry.goubier at gmail.com <mailto:thierry.goubier at gmail.com>> wrote:
> 2016-05-24 16:18 GMT+02:00 Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm at gmail.com
> <mailto:estebanlm at gmail.com>>:
>> On 24 May 2016, at 16:11, Thierry Goubier
>> <thierry.goubier at gmail.com
>> <mailto:thierry.goubier at gmail.com>> wrote:
>> 2016-05-24 15:18 GMT+02:00 Dimitris Chloupis
>> <kilon.alios at gmail.com <mailto:kilon.alios at gmail.com>>:
>> Well technically the python part works fine, BUT I also
>> always wanted it to be friendly to begineers . So nope ,
>> its same project. And you are correct its still focused
>> in coding 3d graphics but I came to realisation that if I
>> want some people to use it, obviously i dont expect the
>> massive majority to give up the comforts of python but
>> for those that are curious I have to provide an
>> enviroment thats is even easier to code in than python is
>> currently for Blender.
>> My goal is to provide a development enviroment for
>> Blender addons that is simple, and easy to use and learn.
>> So providing a minimal pharo image that is self
>> documented has always being a dream for Ephestos.
>> By the way whats the news on the matter of modular pharo
>> image ? Is there any work done to provide a minimal pharo
>> image ?
>> There is a minimal image, which is I think usable as-is,
>> except that what you want is something in between the minimal
>> image (no gui, no tools) and a full image, and that is a bit
>> complex to set-up.
>> I started some work on doing that with Pharo4 (put a place
>> with baselines I could use to load the HEAD of the Pharo main
>> repository and load the right packages), but Pharo5 changed
>> the way external projects are included, and my approach
>> wasn't good anymore.
>> I think the overall Pharo organisation could benefit from
>> such an effort; it would exercise all the planned mechanisms
>> for the modular image, in maybe an easier way than a modular
>> full image, and with someone motivated to debug and maintain
>> the process: you!
> honestly, I wouldn’t.
> working in a parallel image is too much work (believe me, I
> know something about keeping an image going).
> Well, I am technically working in a parallel image for the past
> ... 3 years ? So, no, as long as you handle a changing minimal
> image and a well mastered set of slow changing packages over it,
> it is doable.
> The base Pharo isn't changing much. As long as you don't use what
> is changing a lot, then this is doable. Maintaining changes all
> over all the fast moving packages that are in the full Pharo, then
> I agree with you, Esteban.
> Pavel and Christophe are working on the bootstrap process who
> should be working in one-two months, with that, building
> custom images will be finally a reality…from there you might
> want to give it a try.
> This, given the timeframe, is both an excellent suggestion and
> good to know :)
> But I would better invest on document (something that you have
> been doing very well and I’m very thankful for that) than in
> keeping alive what is, in fact, a fork.
> Racing to document all the fast moving packages in Pharo can
> really be a challenge, still.
>> I would hate to replicate what is already done.
>> On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 3:59 PM Ben Coman
>> <btc at openinworld.com <mailto:btc at openinworld.com>> wrote:
>> On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 7:01 PM, Dimitris Chloupis
>> <kilon.alios at gmail.com
>> <mailto:kilon.alios at gmail.com>> wrote:
>> > So I was reading the complains from Sven and got
>> Inspiration from Torsten
>> > Pharo image and CUIs and made me wonder what if we
>> had an image which has
>> > the least amount of libraries and every library
>> inside it is full commented
>> > in class, package and method and even has tutorial
>> using inside help tool.
>> > So I think I will give this project a try. I know
>> there is a plan to make
>> > pharo image more modular, but modularity does not
>> equal minimalism ,
>> > simplicity and ease of use.
>> > I think I will follow the CUIs example and do the
>> development via Github.
>> > But I am open to ideas and suggestions.
>> > My intention is to remove the excess fat, to make
>> Pharo prettier (improve
>> > theme support and make available several themes )
>> and to have everything
>> > commented and self documented.
>> > Obviously this will be a long term project and in
>> no way a walk in the park
>> > but I was looking for a nice project to name
>> "Ephestos" :D seem as good as
>> > any
>> Did this project not pane out?...
>> Seems you're quite attached to that name :)
>> but is there a minor chance of confusion?
>> cheers -ben
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