[Pharo-users] Creation form from PNG file very slow on Pharo 4 and 5

Dimitris Chloupis kilon.alios at gmail.com
Sat Jan 16 11:17:39 EST 2016

Thanks Estaban as I said I am not giving up on Pharo.

I am actually very interested making pharo work with Unreal to give Pharo
access to the most powerful graphics engine out there. Yeap moving to SDL
could help a lot, I am 100% behind this idea.

Definetly will keep using Pharo but I will try to integrate with powerful
existing technology , so maybe I can bring something new to Pharo too , its
not a suprise that Morphic is not up to my demands, these things take a lot
of coders and resources that pharo does not have. Like you I believe in
leveraging existing technologies from inside Pharo like SDL.

If I am able to build Unreal Engine with a minimal Pharo API as a DLL and
use your FFI to control it, I think I will have the best of both world. I
will have to experiment and see :)

On Sat, Jan 16, 2016 at 5:49 PM Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm at gmail.com>

> Hi Kilon,
> I’m sorry to feel you frustrated.
> Is clear than morphic (and the world) as it is now is not well suited to
> the kind of development you want to do, and clearly documentation is not
> good enough (even if we have moved forward recently, in part with your
> collaboration)…
> Anyway, yes, using the world as is and morphic are not very suitable to
> hard consuming graphics, but there are works that have been happening that
> improves all that:
> Using not the world, but SDL2 (through OS-Window) will reduce the cpu
> consumption drastically… in fact, what happens now (as far as I can guess…
> since I don’t know your stuff) is not that instancing a png is slow, but
> the rendering (you are redrawing every time and that is not optimised in
> morphic, who takes area as damaged every time and redraws it… using athens,
> who is vectorial and then consuming).
> So, with SDL2 you will improve (and you will have separated windows).
> Also, I think you do 3d stuff so in your case I would explore wooden… I
> remember Ronnie showed me an animated scene (I think it was the water
> example) with more then 200 fps without much effort.
> Finally… I know about people doing animations with Pharo (and morphic)
> than have a lot better performance than you had… so there is clearly a
> problem there. If you give me your sources I can give them a look and try
> to figure out what is happening.
> So well… I think is not that is not possible, but that you are traveling
> paths that are new for us, then not documented (or even tested), or really
> optimised.
> Something that we are willing to improve, as always :)
> cheers!
> Esteban
> On 16 Jan 2016, at 15:47, Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.alios at gmail.com> wrote:
> in any case, ignore my bug reports, I am done with this, I waste my time
> and your time . Its clear pharo is not really suited for my needs, life
> goes on.
> On Sat, Jan 16, 2016 at 4:40 PM Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.alios at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>> disk, 1TB. why it matters ? from my profile its clear that its not the
>> primitive that is the problem but how Pharo processes pngs.
>> I happen to work with a lot of big data both in 3d graphics, a blender
>> file can easily reach 250 mb and it opens under a second and audio files ,
>> plus instrument that uses alot of audio files as samples of several gbs
>> giving again instanenous loading. I am not talking here 60 files, I am
>> talking thousands of files.
>> I report a sever limitation and I have been told
>> a) I have not done enough to isolate the problem when I post clear
>> profiling reports and the code that is responsible for it
>> b) why I make a fuss about it since there are work arounds
>> c) that its a hardware limitation when the hardware is able to perform
>> light years ahead of what pharo is currently doing
>> Sorry but this kind of attitude is really bad, when someone reports a bug
>> I find it a lot better to tell him that you don't care or not reply at all
>> and ignore him than just find excuses for the bug or limitation.
>> I see it every single time I complain about a problem there is a few
>> people who are logical about this like Ben , Esteban etc and then some
>> other that in complete denial zone and easily offended by the truth.
>> On Sat, Jan 16, 2016 at 4:07 PM Stephan Eggermont <stephan at stack.nl>
>> wrote:
>>> On 16-01-16 14:48, Dimitris Chloupis wrote:
>>> > sorry but thats plain horrible performance wise and those images are
>>> > needed as soon as the gui is opened. So there can be no lazy loading
>>> for
>>> > them. The total size for all the 60 images is 530kbs . What would
>>> happen
>>> > if I did some serious animations of 10s of mbs , I will have to go to
>>> > buy a coffee to get my GUI opened :D
>>> Is that on a disk or an SSD? You won't be able to get much more than 60
>>> files opened/s on a disk.
>>> Stephan
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