[Pharo-users] Pharo and SQLite
jlhouchin at gmail.com
Thu Oct 15 17:43:56 EDT 2015
Thanks for the reply.
My idea at the moment to write the application as the user interface to
the SQLite database. I do want all of the rdb features. I also
explicitly want something that is usable from other languages or
environments. I might someday think LuaJIT to be the direction I want to
go or whatever. So I want my data to be usable by most anybody. And I
think this view is a good thing for Pharo. I want Pharo to win because
it is the best solution. Not because of any particular technology lock-in.
As I was thinking about the searches that my wife will want in this
recipe database. It seemed to me that there was no easy searches just
iterating through collections of objects. Which is why in my initial
naive thinking that as I approached the problem it felt that in order to
search like we wanted to search it was not a simple solution regardless
of keeping it all Pharo and persisting in the image or moving the data
to an SQLite database. It just felt like I was going to write database
like methods to search over my collections and join and filter data from
hither, thither and yon. It seemed like moving to a real database would
be a win. I could be wrong and have a misconception of how to properly
solve the problem in Pharo/Smalltalk. I am completely open to my naive
initial conception being wrong. I am far from expert.
As I worked on the project and discussed it with my customer. This is my
first project with a customer. The project kept growing in scope and
While I do have a customer, I do have an excellent relationship with my
customer. So I do have the liberty to learn and grow and even change
directions in this project using the technology of my choosing. :)
At the moment I am choosing Pharo and SQLite.
I at present do not see that writing an app on top of an SQLite database
would be more difficult than doing so in something like Lua. Unless
being less OO and more function is a big win.
I also somewhat have the thought of doing a test fork of the project in
a pure Pharo version. This just to test my present assumptions.
Whatever I do will be released with the exception of the recipes. The
content is not mine. :)
Who knows, my wife might be willing to release also. :)
That would test the scaling feature of the project. Most of you all
don't need recipes in our quantity.
On 10/15/2015 01:54 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote:
> Hi Jimmie,
> Your approach seems very good from my point of view. As you know,
> making directly SQL queries or even writing mappings via a relational
> mapper are always a pain. So, my comment is that if you are willing to
> NOT have acid, transactions, and many other of the relational db
> features, you can use a simple one-file based approach like using
> plain Fuel, or even SandstoneDB with Fuel. This scales well for
> small/medium apps. The good thing with this approaches is that you do
> not need to map classes to tables, and avoid having write queries
> etc. Pros and cons, as always.
> On Thu, Oct 15, 2015 at 3:43 PM, Robert Withers
> <robert.w.withers at gmail.com <mailto:robert.w.withers at gmail.com>> wrote:
> Thanks to both of you for the links. I appreciate you.
> On 10/15/2015 02:22 PM, Esteban A. Maringolo wrote:
> I haven't used SQLite in Pharo, but I used it in Android. It is a
> pretty complete database solution, self contained in a single file
> (and a shared library ;-)).
> I already posted the slides of the PgCon where Richard Hipp states
> that SQLite is the replacement of fopen() and not of a whole
> You already have drivers for it here:
> Esteban A. Maringolo
> 2015-10-15 15:05 GMT-03:00 Robert Withers
> <robert.w.withers at gmail.com <mailto:robert.w.withers at gmail.com>>:
> Hi Jimmie,
> Is this SQlite adaptor you wrote published publicly? I'd
> definitely like to
> evaluate this technology for my stack.
> Thank you,
> On 10/15/2015 01:58 PM, Jimmie Houchin wrote:
> I am working on a project for my wife. I initially
> thought I would keep
> all my data inside Pharo because it is a simple
> project and Pharo is
> great at persistence in the image.
> But as I pursued the project it felt like I was
> reinventing the
> database. So I thought why am I considering working so
> hard to structure
> my classes and objects in such a way that I am in
> effect writing my own
> database. All of this to avoid using a "real" database.
> Part of my projects goals is to keep this project
> contained. I do not
> want to require my wife or whomever I share this with
> to have to install
> anything other than copy or unzip the Pharo folder. No
> PostgreSQL or
> MongoDB installs. Keep it simple.
> This is a goal I have for a lot of my ideas.
> In my 20+ years of computing and Internet. I have seen
> lots of
> applications come and go.
> (and no, I don't have gray hair, even though I have
> children older than
> probably half the people here.)
> Many years ago, my wife and I made tremendous use out
> of Apple Works and
> Microsoft Works. Apple at home and for me Microsoft at
> work. We loved
> the ease and simplicity we could throw a database
> together and just do
> stuff. It was great. In fact on my work PC I still use
> weekly and
> sometimes daily a database I wrote in 1994. I am
> almost at the point
> that Windows won't run this ancient MSWorks 4
> database. I will have to
> move my data.
> Of course these tools aren't the greatest. They have
> limitations, but despite the limitations they were
> very empowering.
> My wife started to attempt something similar in
> LibreOffice but
> LibreOffice wasn't so simple. It was confusing to her.
> I briefly looked
> at LibreOffice but I am not convinced that it is the
> best or right tool
> for the job.
> So that sent me on an adventure to implement this in
> Pharo. In my
> learning that I don't want to reinvent the database I
> have initially
> settled on using SQLite. SQLite meets my requirements
> above. It is
> embedded in my Pharo app and only requires including
> the database file I
> create. Very portable and easy to install along with
> anything else in
> SQLite seems like a very good match and complement to
> Pharo. A trusted,
> reliable, external persistence that is as simple and
> portable as is Pharo.
> Richard Hipp creator of SQLite has several videos
> describing how he
> believes SQLite should be used and should not be used.
> SQLite: The Database at the Edge of the Network with
> Dr. Richard Hipp
> 2014 SouthEast LinuxFest - Richard Hipp - SQLite as an
> Application File
> The videos are inspirational for using SQLite. I like
> what he says. I
> encourage watching. I have watched these and others of
> his including his
> anti-git video.
> I am not knowledgeable about the use of git in Pharo,
> but I would be
> interested if anybody has considered and knows the
> pros and cons of
> using Fossil instead. I know, it wouldn't get us on
> GitHub. I may be the
> only one. But that isn't a biggie for me.
> TL;DW (didn't watch)
> Use SQLite for Application File Format for persistence
> instead of a
> (zipped) pile of files and you get many benefits.
> Examples in videos as
> the wrong way, LibreOffice and git.
> I think using SQLite like this for Pharo would be an
> excellent match. We
> gain all the benefits of SQLite, transactions, ACID.
> In a tool that is
> nicely (non)licensed, and is used and trusted
> generally by most all of
> the software world.
> For Pharo this buys us an excellent, simple, equally
> persistence. It also buys us persistence that is
> trusted by people who
> don't trust the image for their data. This could
> possible help with
> people who explore Pharo but aren't comfortable about
> image only. Now of
> course it won't help the Emacs or Vim, ... people.
> I am exploring the idea of using Pharo and SQLite for
> what I would have
> previously used Apple/MS Works database for. At first
> it would be
> building the app/project for my wife. And during and
> after that project
> generalize some things to make a better out of the box
> solution for like
> Thoughts, opinions, ideas, wisdom. Any and all
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