[Pharo-dev] [squeak-dev] Squeak and Tonel

Eliot Miranda eliot.miranda at gmail.com
Sun Feb 17 16:46:41 EST 2019


Stephane,

On Sun, Feb 17, 2019 at 1:33 PM Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse at inria.fr>
wrote:

> Eliot
>
> Contrary to you I do not wish your death.
>

"Drop dead" does not mean I want you dead.  It is English for "Dégagé".


> So can you respect me?
>

No.  I do not.  I've got to the end of my attempt to deal with your
destructive relationships.  I am merely one in a long line including
Camillo, Cl ément, and others.

One reason I can't respe3ct you is that you are not a man of your word.
You sent an email 23 minutes ago that proudly declared "This is my last
email sent to you.".  Well done for keeping your word for 23 minutes.
What's your record?




>
> Stef
>
> On 17 Feb 2019, at 22:30, Eliot Miranda <eliot.miranda at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> On Sun, Feb 17, 2019 at 1:00 PM ducasse <stepharo at netcourrier.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi eliot
>>
>> What is common in your thread is that we always look like the super
>> emotional, or bad guys.
>> You never ask yourselves why Esteban left the VM mailing-list.
>>
>
> What is common is that I discuss technical matters (difficulties in using
> Tonel/git, architectural issues with developing the VM) and organizational
> issues (Estebans' unhelpful response regarding an option in Tonel) and you
> immediately personalize, do not bring up a single technical issue, and then
> make grand pronouncements like :this is the last email I'll send you".
> Laughable and sad.
>
>
>>
>> And I do not see why you cannot fork Tonel to produce your own version.
>> Git is about distributed projects. People do that all the time. You can
>> take Tonel and hack it to death
>> without having your hacks pushed back into Pharo and this is perfectly ok
>> for us.
>> So Esteban has the right to say no and you have the right to hack your
>> own version.
>>
>> If you want to have some support for porting Scorch/Sista to github and
>> loading you should ask
>> but asking it more nicely.
>>
>> About the simulation of the UI, if you do not talk to us we cannot pay
>> attention.
>> I do not see why we cannot keep a package with the image level UI for the
>> simulator.
>> Now again you are talking about collaboration but you do not talk to us
>> and you do not
>> listen to us so do not expect that people are willing to spend their free
>> time to help.
>>
>>
>> I had deep concerns that the pursuit of git integration would end up
>> splitting the Pharo and Squeak communities and indeed this is now in
>> progress.  I am utterly unmotivated by the lack of cooperation, the sheer
>> arrogance and bullying of those that say "you will move to git/tonel or
>> else”,
>>
>>
>> This is fun to ask Pharo not to grow up to use modern technology to
>> manage source code under the
>> premisses that Squeak cannot or will not.
>> This is so funny how you state it. I will not comment more than that.
>> People around are adults and they will be able to judge by themselves.
>>
>> and considering leaving VMMaker altogether.
>>
>>
>> If you leave VMMaker, let us know because we will port it to Github and
>> make it work in Pharo.
>> Esteban did it several times in the past. At least this will have the
>> benefit to clarify the situation.
>>
>> I think that this is good that you tell us that you do not want to
>> cooperate with us.
>> This will have at least the impact to kick our ass and pay attention to
>> us.
>>
>> The only things that are keeping me interested are Ron Teitelbaum's Terf
>> and me pursuing a PhD on register allocation in the context of Sista/Scorch
>> with Robert Hirshfeld's group at HPI.
>>
>> Here's the kind of crap people like Ducasse throw at me:
>>
>> "Eliot
>>
>> At the end of the day I will probably ask the two phds that should work
>> on language design to use truffle or pypy
>> because let us face it we cannot work with the Pharo VM. Else we will
>> simply have to fork it (because we do not want to have
>> to jump over cuis, newspeak, squeak code constraints and I do not what)
>> and it will be another drama is in the pico world
>> of the “open” smalltalk VM. "
>>
>> I am so over this crap.
>>
>>
>> This is not a crap. I can restate what I said. Because of responsibility
>> of a research team and creating a future for students. You know I’m not
>> alone, I have quite some responsibility towards PhD students
>> of my group and yes I cannot make them fail by construction (or produce
>> unadequate results)
>> just by imposing them to use a system with far too many constraints.
>>
>> I will not ask them to work on the openSmalltalk vm directly because this
>> is not their responsibilities
>> to have to jump over newspeak ifdef and others.  A job of a PhD is to be
>> able to brainstorm and create new ideas. Look at Stefan Marr (He is working
>> on SOM or Truffle).
>>
>> Now you can think that I’m an asshole, arrogant, or I do not know pick
>> what you want.
>> ***I do not care***. I do not have Diva syndrome I have responsibilities
>> towards people.
>>
>> I was discussing with some truffle experts and they told me that this is
>> can be complex. I believe it.
>> I would like to avoid pypy for obvious reasons. So what we will probably
>> do for their PhD is to see if we can use a light version of opensmalltalk.
>> I do not want to ask them to jump over many things that are totally useless
>> for them all the time.
>>
>>
>> PS: personnally I do not get why VMMaker would be the only project on
>> earth that cannot be managed using git and Pharo.
>> But for us the future is Git and we will continue to build on this
>> infrastructure.
>>
>>
>> Stef
>>
>>
>> _,,,^..^,,,_
>> best, Eliot
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> _,,,^..^,,,_
> best, Eliot
>
>
> --------------------------------------------
> Stéphane Ducasse
> http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr
> http://www.synectique.eu / http://www.pharo.org
> 03 59 35 87 52
> Assistant: Julie Jonas
> FAX 03 59 57 78 50
> TEL 03 59 35 86 16
> S. Ducasse - Inria
> 40, avenue Halley,
> Parc Scientifique de la Haute Borne, Bât.A, Park Plaza
> Villeneuve d'Ascq 59650
> France
>
>
>

-- 
_,,,^..^,,,_
best, Eliot
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