[Pharo-dev] [Pharo-users] including Pillar in Pharo image by default

Ben Coman btc at openinworld.com
Tue Aug 15 10:25:06 EDT 2017


On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 12:54 AM, Esteban A. Maringolo <emaringolo at gmail.com
> wrote:

> You hit several birds with one single mail.
>
> 2017-08-14 13:34 GMT-03:00 Tim Mackinnon <tim at testit.works>:
> > Jimmie et al. nicely reasoned arguments - and Doru's point about
> controlling
> > the syntax is an interesting one that I hadn’t thought about.
> >
> > Personally, I find having too many similar syntax’s confusing -
> contributing
> > to things is hard enough - having to remember that its !! Instead of ##
> and
> > “” instead of ** is just frustrating for me.
>
> +1


> Not only for docs, most platforms like Slack/Discord share the syntax,
> so now I'm getting "muscle memory" when typing literals using the
> backtick (`) character, quoting with > or pasting snippets using ```
>

+1.  So I've posted this before...

https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2000/06/03/strategy-letter-iii-let-me-go-back/
describing that "The only strategy in getting people to switch to your
product is to eliminate barriers"

But more... the best reason for Pillar to support a Markdown-ish syntax, is
that when we scratch-our-own-itch (nominally for Pillar) to build the best
damn markup-editor ever (because we can!) - if this happened to support
Markdown it can draw in Markdown-non-Pharo users (because its the best
editor ever!). Those users later want to make modifications, and now have a
*reason* to learn Pharo... ahHaA! now you see the cunning plan...

So don't just promote to people "hey come and play with this cool toy of
ours (Pharo)."
Instead give them a toy they *already-want* (Markdown editor) and then when
they want to change the batteries, they *need* to use our special
screwdriver (Pharo).

cheers -ben


>
> > Sure, maybe we were first with Pillar, but for me, lots of programming
> is in
> > other languages, and I use Smalltalk where I can, and a hybrid of
> multiple
> > languages and projects is often the reality - so a lowest common
> denominator
> > of Markdown is just easier. The fact that we are quite close to what our
> > colleagues in other languages use (regardless of what Python has
> chosen), is
> > quite interesting.
>
> This helps building "bridges" with other communities.








>
> The language as a means of exchange is always the lowest common
> denominator.
> As long as it's "efficient enough" then I vote to use what other
> communities use.
>
> > That said, if the community wants to stick to its gun’s thats fine - I
> will
> > probably still investigate how to use Commonmark for myself, and will
> still
> > contribute to Pillar docs where I can (and curse history) - but I think
> we
> > are long better off trying to join emerging standards where we can
> > particularly if they aren’t our core language thing. And it just makes it
> > less frictionless for ourselves and newcomers.
>
> The "Not Invented Here" syndrome is strong among Smalltalkers, it's
> important to be aware of this bias and think more than once whether
> eating our own dogfood adds value to the core of what Pharo brings.
>
> I think we missed some good years fighting with our own SCM and in the
> end git (or any other file based SCM) prevailed, even when it has
> limitations.
>
> Pareto (80-20) for everything non-core business should be a guide.
>
> > Of course, if we were to move, we would need to translate a lot of
> quality
> > docs to a new format - but I would be up for contributing to that if that
> > was a deciding factor.
>
> There are some Markdown exporters AFAIK, or it could be written.
>
>
> Esteban A. Maringolo
>
>
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