[Pharo-dev] PharoJS crashes at first try

Tudor Girba tudor at tudorgirba.com
Sun Aug 13 14:19:11 EDT 2017


Truth has nothing to do with what our current exchange. In your email, you say "many of them [people] lack some important aspects to be called professionals.” You do not know these people, you do not know their motivations, constraints and goals. This means you are in no position to pass a judgement on these people, and as a consequence your remark can easily be regarded as offensive. Please also do not conflate this discussion in the political correctness debate. It only has to do with common sense.

As I mentioned, PharoJS is an external project. It is not Pharo and its state has no relation to Pharo at present time. We are still very happy that it exists though and that it is still being developed. If you do not want to consider working on or with it is perfectly fine and I was not trying to imply otherwise. However, please do keep in mind that you are on the mailing list pertaining the development of Pharo. If you are interested in Pharo form a user perspective, please refer to the dedicated mailing list: pharo-users at lists.pharo.org.

Concerning Pharo, we do actually place a significant focus on creating documentation on several fronts. For example, there are books written, and others currently being written. We also have projects on making the tools more welcoming for displaying documentation closer to the code. And we do very much welcome improvements to comments inside the image. There actually are several people that contributed mostly comments and documentation in the image and that was a significant contribution. So, given that it was possible in other cases, the suggestion to contribute documentation is not at all out of place.

This being said, we do welcome you and I am happy you had a successful career. At the same time, I do happen to believe that form has a deep effect on people. We want this space to be kind, and I kindly ask you to respect that and to pay attention to the used language especially given that email is such a limited medium and that most people are not native English speakers.


> On Aug 13, 2017, at 6:18 PM, Frank-B <frank.berger.software at web.de> wrote:
> Dear Tudor,
> I had expected such answers and I feel sorry to have to waste time on
> defending the unwanted truth.
> You should have noticed how positively I see these activities and how much I
> regret that my experiences were mostly negative. I would like to have
> contributed and I certainly would have a lot in my framework but I don't
> feel that this would be a fruitful ground here. I had given the reasons.
> My impression always was that the majority of contributers here are very
> eager to create a real-word system that could be used for real applications.
> This is why I freely and openly wrote about my impressions and experiences.
> If somebody says: "I program for fun and contribute for my ego" - that's
> absolutely fine with me. But my impressions did NOT reflect such an
> attitude.
> Tudor Girba-2 wrote
>> Hi Frank,
>> Please be more polite with people that contribute open software that you
>> have the option of actually playing with at no cost (other than time). 
> The truth is never unpolite - but in these days of Yankee originated
> censorship that is euphemistically called "political correctness" most
> people also in Europe are infected by this madness, so that many people do
> not want to hear any bitter facts any more.
>> Saying that the people from around here lack skills is an unnecessary 
> No that is a lie, I did not write that "they lack skills" nor anything
> alike. 
> I made clear that most do not document and that  many often do not really
> finish their projects. That has nothing do with skills, rather with
> finishing a task properly or only by 85% or 90% - and that has unfortunately
> often been my impression in the Squeak/Pharo arena.
>> remark and I am sure you can write more positive messages. 
> I will and I always do but only when justified. 
>> Beside creating a nicer atmosphere, being polite also pays off in the long
>> term as you tend to get better reaction and support from people.
> Well, you really don't need to tell me. I have managed large projects with
> up to 30 developers so I really know how to motivate people and how to lead.
> Oh, all of my projects became products and most of them in time. But still
> and in total contrast to the general US attitude (see the current scandal at
> Google), I will always stick to the truth and I know that 95% of all people,
> whose boss I was, preferred this attitude.
>> Back to the original subject, PharoJS is an external project that is
>> kindly developed by people that want to explore a path that you actually
>> seem eager to try. I would suggest restarting the conversation with
>> describing the exact steps you undertook and explaining where the error is
>> (The screenshots you send do not seem to show any error) and ask for
>> guidelines.
> Very simple and I wrote this very clearly: I loaded the code and tried to
> "do it" the code in the Playground window. There was nothing more done and
> therefore there are no steps to explain.
>> Now, is documentation an issue in general. Of course, it is. And if you
>> care about it, we would very much welcome a contribution from you in that
>> area, or any other area you choose to.
> That's rediculous! You ask somebody else to document already written code.
> Pardon, but that's an extremely bad rethorical joke!
> Documentation and comments must be written BEFORE any code is written and
> must be ADJUSTED when the code is changed and finally when it seems to be
> finished - from the developer's point of view.
> If somebody seriously asks me - as an external - to document and comment
> already finished and totally undocumented code of somebody I do not even
> know, all I can think of is this old saying: "Oh Lord, forgive them as they
> do not know what they are speaking about".
> Hopefully, you don't mean this seriously, do you?
> BTW: If somebody uses the word "issue" where actually "problem" or "fault"
> or "mistake" would be correct, I see a sign of PC and successful brainwash. 
> Missing documentation and IN-CODE comments are never an "issue" but always a
> "problem" and a always a great "mistake".
> --
> View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/PharoJS-crashes-at-first-try-tp4960686p4960706.html
> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.


"Things happen when they happen,
not when you talk about them happening."

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