[Pharo-dev] a Pharo talk from a ruby conference

Eliot Miranda eliot.miranda at gmail.com
Mon Apr 28 15:08:38 EDT 2014


On Mon, Apr 28, 2014 at 11:38 AM, Tudor Girba <tudor at tudorgirba.com> wrote:

> Hi Eliot,
>
> I know we went through it, and we still disagree :). I have provided
> detailed arguments and I have seen no others that did refute mine.
>

OK, I'll bite :-).  Point me to the arguments and I'll have a go at
refutation.  But my statement that Pharo is a Smalltalk boils own to the
facts that Smalltalk has always evolved (Multiple inheritance was a
discarded experiment that is in Smalltalk-80 for example, Tweak contains a
sort-of slot idea, as another) and that Pharo's evolutions are no different
to other evolutions that have enriched Smalltalk but not redefined it, and
that one way to tell is to see if the VM or instruction set needs to be
radically different to implement the system efficiently.  So there's
nothing un-Smalltalk about traits, or slots or a modular compiler.


> I am certainly open to talking about it. I have no intention of lying or
> hiding. I am rather proud to be part of this community and to do my bit of
> contributing.
>

Us both.


> But, please understand that my main concern is getting Pharo adopted which
> is what other Smalltalk rooted systems did not really manage until now.
> There are many ways to say the same thing. Some people will resonate with
> some messages, and some others will pick holes in them. I will focus on
> increasing the first set of people while preserving the semantics I believe
> in.
>

Quite.  Agreed.


>
> Doru
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 28, 2014 at 7:38 PM, Eliot Miranda <eliot.miranda at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 28, 2014 at 10:20 AM, Tudor Girba <tudor at tudorgirba.com>wrote:
>>
>>> That is why we talk about Pharo as a cool, modern environment and
>>> language that is Smalltalk-inspired.
>>>
>>
>> We went through this a few months ago.  Pharo  isn't inspired by
>> Smalltalk; it /is/ a Smalltalk.   Trying to be mealy-mouthed about it and
>> claiming inspiration, rather than proudly declaring its a Smalltalk is IMO
>> as bad as apologizing for it being dead.
>>
>>
>>> We do not need to apologize because Pharo was never dead :).
>>>
>>
>> We don't need to avoid the S word either...
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Doru
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Apr 28, 2014 at 7:16 PM, Norbert Hartl <norbert at hartl.name>wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Am 28.04.2014 um 18:58 schrieb kilon alios <kilon.alios at gmail.com>:
>>>>
>>>> very cool presentation. Definitely you need to add this to the new
>>>> website.
>>>>
>>>> Question : Why in every presentation we have to apologise why smalltalk
>>>> is dead / extinct ?
>>>>
>>>> As a newcomer to Smalltalk I find it quite annoying. Its not as if I
>>>> came to Smalltalk without knowing that is not popular. The vast majority of
>>>> languages out there are so more unpopular than Smalltalk, yet they don't
>>>> have this "sorry that I am dead" mentality to them.
>>>>
>>>> +1
>>>>
>>>> Well said.
>>>>
>>>> Norbert
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Apr 28, 2014 at 7:12 PM, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker at inria.fr>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> … more a Smalltalk one using Pharo:
>>>>>
>>>>> MountainWest RubyConf 2014
>>>>>
>>>>> Noel Rappin: "But Really, You Should Learn Smalltalk”
>>>>>
>>>>> Smalltalk has mystique. We talk about it more than we use it. It seems
>>>>> like it should be so similar to Ruby. It has similar Object-Oriented
>>>>> structures, it even has blocks. But everything is so slightly different,
>>>>> from the programming environment, to the 1-based arrays, to the simple
>>>>> syntax. Using Smalltalk will make you look at familiar constructs with new
>>>>> eyes. We’ll show you how to get started on Smalltalk, and walk through some
>>>>> sample code. Live coding may be involved. You’ll never look at objects the
>>>>> same way again.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.confreaks.com/videos/3284-mwrc-but-really-you-should-learn-smalltalk
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> www.tudorgirba.com
>>>
>>> "Every thing has its own flow"
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> best,
>> Eliot
>>
>
>
>
> --
> www.tudorgirba.com
>
> "Every thing has its own flow"
>



-- 
best,
Eliot
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