[Pharo-dev] [Inspiration] Toward a better programming

Goubier Thierry thierry.goubier at cea.fr
Thu Apr 3 03:22:18 EDT 2014



Le 02/04/2014 22:51, Pharo4Stef a écrit :
>
> On 02 Apr 2014, at 13:31, Goubier Thierry <thierry.goubier at cea.fr> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Le 02/04/2014 08:12, Tudor Girba a écrit :
>>> The language itself is less interesting for me, but what makes it stand
>>> out is that it has a coherent and robust philosophy behind and
>>> phenomenal goals to reach. In Pharo, we have the luxury of building on
>>> top of coherent and robust philosophy (even if different from the
>>> Wolfram one) and we should try as much as possible to keep our eyes on
>>> phenomenal goals that seem unreachable.
>>
>> I see two barriers in the current Pharo to be able to reach that:
>>
>> - Lack of clear documentation of the underlying code management structure and facilities. It takes ages to get into the gritty details of things like RPackage and the refactory framework, documentation is very often limited to "this is the way Nautilus does it", and "no worry about changing it, Nautilus developpers are the same guy" which ends up being very painful for someone outside that core group.
>
> I agree but who is writing doc beside me and sven?

Not me :(

> Do you think that this is easy to write doc on something that you did not write.
> For Rpackage this is not that complex and you do not want to document the part that glue inside announcement and other.

Well, yes and no. Any exposure to RPackage and you understand that you 
have to know about the glue. Trust me on that one ;)

>> - GUI conservatism. The choice made in Pharo in the overall look is to be conservative and business-like, and so blame the too-advanced, too-fancy Morphic (and at the same time have Roassal pushing the enveloppe, but outside the normal toolkit :) which means someone would find it probably hard to do Roassal-based development tools). Glamour, Spec and GTToolkit are interesting to look at along that "conservatism" in GUI.
>
> You cannot clean Morphic without removing experimental stuff.
> Once we will have a better morphic then we can be more adventurous. You probably did not spend enough time in morphic if
> you do not think that I’m right. :) Now this is clear that Roassal is a bit reinventing Morphic to some extend but this is like that.

Morphic itself is still (how many years since Self we are at now?) 
experimental.

Big chunks of what made Morphic what it is are gone from Pharo. Even 
Pharo by example requires loading extensions. And in normal, business 
GUI stuff, Morphic capabilities are underused and get in the way.

Now, there is Alain Plantec work. That will be interesting...

Thierry
-- 
Thierry Goubier
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