[Pharo-dev] The Second Coming of Java article

phil at highoctane.be phil at highoctane.be
Wed Nov 27 05:08:35 EST 2013


Thanks. I've read the all.
Especially when I wanted to get the iPad version running and customized
some things in there and ran into CMake bugs at the time.

Thanks for writing them, they helped!
Phil




On Wed, Nov 27, 2013 at 2:20 AM, Mariano Martinez Peck <
marianopeck at gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 5:49 PM, phil at highoctane.be <phil at highoctane.be>wrote:
>
>> FWIW, I'd love to have a working Pharo bytecode interpreter that works.
>> VMMaker currently doesn't have one it seems (earlier experiments didn't
>> worked for me).
>>
>> I am very interested with the VM, read the blue book,
>>
>
> I been writing a lot about that, at least as much as I could.
>
>
>>  understand the primitives,
>>
>
> http://marianopeck.wordpress.com/tag/primitives/
>
>
>> can somewhat read bytecode
>>
>
> http://marianopeck.wordpress.com/tag/bytecodes/
>
>
>>  but what is needed now is the ability to run/debug a VM inside Pharo
>> itself.
>>
>
> Yes, the simulator does not run these days.
>
>
>> GDB'ing is okay but a pain in the ass to understand what's going on.
>>
>> Ok, for debugging the VM with gdb I have:
> http://marianopeck.wordpress.com/tag/gdb/
>
>
>> Also read the Tour of the OE of Tim Rowledge and Porting the VM etc.
>>
>> Also looked at the VMMaker package (Interpreter and Object Memory) +
>> Slang.
>>
>> Now, getting an working interpreter would help me reach the next step. I
>> am not talking about the Stack interpreter, but the plain Interpreter.
>>
>>
> If you want to learn, besides all those mentioned books, you can start
> with http://marianopeck.wordpress.com/2011/03/31/journey-through-the-vm/
> that is a sequence of a lots of posts related to the VM.
>
> Cheers,
>
>
>
>> Any plans?
>>
>> Phil
>>
>> ---
>> Philippe Back
>> Dramatic Performance Improvements
>>  Mob: +32(0) 478 650 140 | Fax: +32 (0) 70 408 027
>> Mail:phil at highoctane.be | Web: http://philippeback.eu
>> Blog: http://philippeback.be | Twitter: @philippeback
>> Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/user/philippeback/videos
>>
>> High Octane SPRL
>> rue cour Boisacq 101 | 1301 Bierges | Belgium
>>
>> Pharo Consortium Member - http://consortium.pharo.org/
>> Featured on the Software Process and Measurement Cast -
>> http://spamcast.libsyn.com
>> Sparx Systems Enterprise Architect and Ability Engineering EADocX Value
>> Added Reseller
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 9:33 PM, Stéphane Ducasse <
>> stephane.ducasse at inria.fr> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> On Nov 26, 2013, at 1:21 PM, phil at highoctane.be wrote:
>>>
>>> I downloaded ST/X this morning and looked around for a couple hours.
>>>
>>> Impressive system. And impressive clients list/activities etc.
>>> <rant>
>>> And wow, Claus is yet another individual with top notch computer
>>> chops... Seems that this community has the highest density of high perf
>>> brains. I feel humbled indeed.
>>> </rant>
>>>
>>> What struck me was the speed.
>>>
>>>
>>> 15 years of working improving the VM pays off.
>>> This is why the work of Eliot on Spur are also important. What is also
>>> important is that more people can work on the VM
>>> for cleaning it so that we get a documented and good vehicule.
>>> And this will take time. We are working on a prototype to get forced to
>>> think about VM and learn. But this prototype will
>>> not replace Cog in the near future. So we should be happy that cog is
>>> there and improving.
>>>
>>> Stef
>>>
>>> Pharo really needs a huge speedup on the UI front. I am using a top of
>>> the line desktop system and still Pharo sometimes feels slow (some is due
>>> to algorithms - like the finder tool taking ages for a lot of things, but
>>> some is due to the UI system).
>>>
>>> This is not linked to the VM, as the MVC projects in Squeak are uber
>>> fast.
>>>
>>> Is the Text rewrite going to have an impact on this?
>>>
>>> On the front of interoperability, I personally have chosen to go the
>>> RabbitMQ route, it allows me to wire all kinds of things together with some
>>> room for scale.
>>>
>>> On the Java front itself, in the TCL community, we do have tclbend and
>>> also a package to do the same thing as STX:LIBJAVA. Truth be told, there
>>> hasn't been much traction in there. It works fine but that's it.
>>> http://www2.tcl.tk/1313 - usage sample http://www2.tcl.tk/14919
>>> It also has fell behind in terms of keeping up with the latest versions
>>> of the environment.
>>>
>>> In PHP, there is the Quercus and Caucho Resin Server that allows to run
>>> PHP on top of the JVM and invoke Java from there. Some people run very fast
>>> stuff on that, and benefiting from all JEE abilities (JMS, JTA, Clustering,
>>> JAAS...) is really nice.
>>> http://www.caucho.com/resin-3.1/doc/quercus.xtp
>>>
>>>
>>> Phil
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 12:26 PM, Jan Vrany <jan.vrany at fit.cvut.cz>wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 26/11/13 10:40, Serge Stinckwich wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 10:54 AM, Jan Vrany <jan.vrany at fit.cvut.cz>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 26/11/13 03:28, askoh wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Bravo Jan and your collaborators. You have done it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Anything preventing STX:LIBJAVA from being used in production
>>>>>>> environments?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Good question. STX:LIBJAVA is still a research phase. However, if
>>>>>> everything
>>>>>> goes fine, we might have first project using it for real
>>>>>> in couple months.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> What is important is also the licence. Do you use an open-source
>>>>> licence ?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Strictly speaking - no. For various, historical reasons.
>>>>
>>>> The Smalltalk part STX:LIBJAVA support code is available under
>>>> the same terms as Smalltalk/X itself [1].
>>>>
>>>> The code of the VM is not publicly available for various reasons,
>>>> though it is possible to get an access. Ask Claus Gittinger if
>>>> you're interested in details.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>  Anything preventing Pharo and VisualWorks for using the technology
>>>>>>> also?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  Short answer: Time and money.
>>>>>> The way we did it requires significant changes to the virtual machine
>>>>>> (as we believe this is the only way to get a decent performance).
>>>>>> Indeed, if
>>>>>> somebody going to pay for it, everything's possible ;-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> You should try to ask ESUG about financial support.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Maybe I should. But frankly - how many people in this community are
>>>> like "That would be great, I need this feature!" Raise hands. :-)
>>>>
>>>> Cheers, Jan
>>>>
>>>> [1] http://www.exept.de/cgi-bin/viewvc.cgi/stx/README?view=markup
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Mariano
> http://marianopeck.wordpress.com
>
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