[Pharo-dev] Smalltalk in a C World

phil at highoctane.be phil at highoctane.be
Mon Dec 9 16:45:29 EST 2013


Now, moving forward, what would be required to have an interpreter embedded
in C, even if this means having another image with a special API and the
whole enchilada?

At least a working prototype.

I have looked at the "Porting the VM" document and the part about headless
(which is now done differently).

What comes to my mind is to define a specific neutral C platform that would
be able to execute basic bytecode.

>From videos of Ben, I saw SystemTracer (or SystemTracer2) recreating a very
tiny image making some noise to prove it was working.

Could it be possible to target this kind of tiny image running inside a C
program through a base interpreter? This would avoid having to deal with
the whole primitives and plugins at the beginning.

Phil

On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 9:07 PM, Stéphane Ducasse
<stephane.ducasse at inria.fr>wrote:

>
>
> The main issue is that it is complicated to embed the VM in C code.
> That's due to how the VM is done.
>
> Compared to TCL, where you can easily embed the interpreter in a C
> program, this is a problem. http://wiki.tcl.tk/3474
>
> Where you can embed the interpreter in a C program, you can do whatever
> integration you want.
>
> Now, with NativeBoost, we can call C. The next challenge would be to be
> able to call Pharo from C by embedding the interpreter.
>
> I am curious to  see what you guys think about this.
>
>
> It is one of my dream!
> Now I'm too bad in C to make this dream comes true. Sadly. But I would
> love to have Pharo being able to
> be embedded in C.
>
>
> I would love to see things like mod_pharo (as there is mod_php, mod_perl,
> mod_tcl...) in Apache.
>
>
>
>
>
> ---
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>
>
> On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 9:48 AM, kilon alios <kilon.alios at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> please note that generating dlls alone wont be enough , plugins are
>> compiled against a runtime or specific libraries (a Plugin SDK) and
>> Smalltalk MT would have to be able to do that in order to be a viable
>> solution.
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 10:28 AM, Stéphane Ducasse <
>> stephane.ducasse at inria.fr> wrote:
>>
>>> You should think that they use their smalltalk for their projects.
>>>
>>> Stef
>>>
>>> On Dec 9, 2013, at 9:21 AM, Clément Bera <bera.clement at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> How can people even know Smalltalk MT still exist with their website and
>>> their communication ?
>>>
>>> I looked at other Smalltalks a while ago, for Smalltalk MT I clicked on
>>> "what's new" on their website and I got that:
>>>
>>> <Screen Shot 2013-12-09 at 9.18.11 AM.png>
>>>
>>> Then I thought this Smalltalk was dead (nothing new in the past 4 years)
>>> and I didn't look any further.
>>>
>>>
>>> 2013/12/8 Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse at inria.fr>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> > Yes - still alive and kicking. But I'm sure you did not notice since
>>>> there
>>>> > are no "big" announcements or advertising for it.
>>>> > ObjectConnect follows the "time is better invested into technology"
>>>> strategy.
>>>> > It is one of the most interesting Smalltalks ever implemented.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.objectconnect.com/stmt_overview.htm
>>>> I like the idea that you can get 50kb applications.
>>>> Now since this is a closed system and windows-centric.
>>>> But I like that it shows that Smalltalk does not have to be the image
>>>> centric way.
>>>>
>>>> >
>>>> > The newest ST/MT 6.3 version (now 64 bit) is from end of November 2013
>>>>
>>>> Now it is not a community thing. :)
>>>> And the web site stop and 5.6 in 2009.
>>>>
>>>> Last time I talk to tarrick he told me that he could control the "no gc
>>>> in the next 250 frames on PS2"
>>>> but it was in 1998 :)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Stef
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
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