[Pharo-project] direct object manipulation

Igor Stasenko siguctua at gmail.com
Fri Mar 30 13:28:27 EDT 2012

On 30 March 2012 16:30, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel at me.com> wrote:
>>> I didn't, but wait. What does this intall? Why not to simply package the libraries with the VM?
>> because it is a third-party library.
>> To me, your proposal sounds similar to "why not simply package
>> Operating System libraries with the VM".
>> Because in this case you need cairo. But in case of OpenGL, you will
>> need opengl libs.. so "package everything" goes nowhere.
>>> I tried once to use port/fink and I broke the internal of OSX, after having downloaded 500 Mb.
>> i know that using external libs sometimes is painful. But this is like
>> that. And we're not alone with these problems.
>> I think there's many other software which have to deal with it.
>> Another solution is to implement everything by own :)
> Well... The Cairo libraries are shipped with VisualWorks. When I install VW, I've just say that I want Cairo, and everything works well. I have played a bit with Cairo on VW and I am quite happy so far.
> I would not have played with it if I had to install the lib externally with port/fink.
> I personally would not mind to have the virtual machine twice as big if cairo is shipped with it.

I know i know.. It is what 1-click images for.. where everything
stuffed together.
Now, did i mentioned already that i don't like it?
It is good for starters.. but bad for one big thing: you vaccinating
people from keeping an eye on updates
because they think they should use only 1-click package and nothing else exists.

And then when they reporting problems, usual answer is "it is already
fixed in recent version",
but they don't know how to download update, because all they know is 1-click.

Let's not turn developers into a housewives. You are developer, you
should know how software works,
and you should know how to download, install , upgrade and run it.
And if you don't, then learn, otherwise it is your fault or you just
picked wrong profession for your career. :)

> I think it depends on what do you want to do in the mid-long term: throwing away the squeak bitmap rendering and using Cairo for real? What should be the external library, the squeak bitmap rendering or Cairo?

I don't understand your question.
Cairo is one of the backends for Athens. And it quite possible happen,
won't be the best one.
If you don't want to install cairo library, you can try Athens without
cairo installed.
Then you should use AthensBalloonSurface instead of AthensCairoSurface.

> Alexandre
> --
> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
> Alexandre Bergel  http://www.bergel.eu
> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

Best regards,
Igor Stasenko.

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