[Pharo-project] Increase populatity of Pharo by doing some Killer-OpenSource-Tools

Camillo Bruni camillobruni at gmail.com
Fri Mar 9 11:49:31 EST 2012


On 2012-03-09, at 17:11, Torsten Bergmann wrote:

> Hi Stefan,
> 
> I'm not sure if it is a killer app that is required to get more 
> visibility for Pharo or a better adoption of Smalltalk. 
> 
> We already have nice open-source apps ranging from Seaside, Pier, 
> Moose, Swiki, ... up to other Smalltalk apps that are sucessfull 
> also in business life.
> 
> Look at JPMorgans Kapital project done in VW, other big Smalltalk
> projects or the Pharo success stories [2] meanwhile known to the world.
> Still Smalltalk is very unknown among developers ...

we need visibility... the image as a sole source does not help here,
most programmers like files and scripts and their common editors :)

- use common tools (github for instance will be available soon on Pharo)
- get indexable documentation (google doesn't seem to like squeaksource that much) :)
- we need better system integration (accessing ENV vars and program args is still a bit messy in Pharo)
- we need an embeddable VM (I guess that is also on the way :))

> I agree with Dave Thomas who said that the object abstraction is too 
> complex for the majority of programmers. [1] 
> Most people are happy with (boring) CRUD applications and
> I doubt a killer app implemented in Smalltalk will change this.
> Most of them see no need for switching from Java, C#, ...

look at ruby with ruby on rails, people seem to like it despite the heavy
meta programming used in it

=> we need a decent scripting api (almost there with coral)

> Not that I would not want to see Trac/Bugzilla/... one-click replacements 
> done in Smalltalk - but building them will eat up our resources to build
> something that should be even better than current Smalltalks.

that might be true, but looking at pharo I seem we still lack some
basic tools of a modern programming language. However we made a massive
progress over the last years ;)

> I doubt that Pharo will become the "next big thing". I'm not
> sad about that since most hype technologies will easily fade away 
> when the next hype comes up.
> 
> Maybe you remember auctomatic.com - these guys have built an app
> with Seaside and sold the company for lots of money. So it must
> have been a killer app.  
> 
> One of them (Patrick) shares some nice thoughts on his 
> page [3] - if you replace "auctomatic" with Pharo and "ebay"
> with one of the mainstream technologies like Java it is an 
> interesting guide for a future of Pharo too.
> Especially regarding internationalization which is I think
> an interesting area to get more people into Smalltalk.
> 
> Bye
> Torsten
> 
> 
> [1] http://smalltalk-bob.blogspot.com/2012/03/who-needs-objects.html
> [2] http://www.pharo-project.org/about/success-stories
> [3] http://patrickcollison.com/blog/2009/10/surprises
> 
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