[Pharo-project] pharo-seed and pharo

Tudor Girba tudor at tudorgirba.com
Fri Mar 2 15:20:19 EST 2012

Hi Stef,

On 2 Mar 2012, at 13:11, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:

> Hi doru
> We already changed to build not from a snapshot (the one published on regular basis but manually by marcus) 
> but from the latest jenkins build. Like that we do not need to load a bunch of versions. 


> In addition benjamin showed to marcus the tools he built with camillo to support integration.
> I should sync with them because we would like to have more and more tools to help us avoiding manual work
> and that other people can review fixes and press the button ok without stress, like that sven, alain, ben, igor 
> can integrate without stress.

Even better :)

> Now for the smaller image:
> Context: we need to see because we cannot simply take a small image and load the latest packages.
> 	Why? because some changes were made knowing that the system was in a given state.
> 	I hope that in the future we will always be able to load from the latest package versions but this is not as simple as that.

I understand, but we need to start somewhere :)

> Exp1:
> 	Now we can try and see. For example if we take the first 1.4alpha and load the list of packages listed in the latest versions
> 	of scriptLoader package. This could show some potential problems to upgrade directly to the latest versions of packages. 
> 	If you want to help this would be a cool experience to do. With script loader you can simple ask scriptLoader to load a set of packages.

Ok. So I downloaded the first Pharo Core 1.4:

but, I still do not know what packages to load. Is there an easy way to figure these ones out (and in particular the loading order)?

> Exp2:
> 	The second step is to see if it makes sense to manage Core Image with Metacello or if in addition to the list of packages
> 	we can load the tools manage with metacello (notice that it would mean also the packages that we will move out of current core):
> 	How much times does it take to load the packages and projects of tools that would be in Pharo (not Core) and check the time to do it.
> 		We can measure that from a version of core that we consider as a potential seed and/or 
> 		with a version that would get some stuff loaded (and would correspond to the latest build).

Exactly. If you tell me from which image to start and the list of packages I will try to go through this experience. But, I need help because I am an outsider when it comes to this problem.


> Stef
> On Mar 2, 2012, at 10:06 AM, Tudor Girba wrote:
>> Hi,
>> I believe everyone agrees that one important goal in Pharo is to get
>> to a small code/kernel/seed. During the Pharo Sprint at Bern we saw
>> that the only reason for now having a unified image is just a
>> temporary convenience that stems from two things:
>> 1. Until Pharo 1.3, the core team worked in the core image, and this
>> was frustrating because they were missing proper tools
>> 2. After 1.3, building a pharo image out of a seed image was perceived
>> as being too long and not fitting for the process of integration
>> It's clear that the core team needs development tools. However, we
>> think that 2 can be actually quite cheap if the build starts from the
>> latest seed, and not from the original seed of 1.4 as it currently
>> seem to happen. If this would be fast, we could go back to having one
>> seed image (I call it seed just to avoid confusion and wrong feelings,
>> but you can call it anyway you want) out of which the Pharo
>> distribution (like the current image is) is built. The core team would
>> work on this distribution, and Jenkins would do the rest. By switching
>> the distribution build to work with the latest seed, we can probably
>> reduce the amount of build time to a couple of minutes (at least this
>> is what we saw during a couple of quick tests).
>> Regarding the flow of the integrator, we saw that actually, when
>> multiple changes need to be integrated, you can base the second change
>> on the image that already exists locally, without needing to wait
>> until Jenkins finishes.
>> I would be interested in providing help. So, what do you say?
>> Cheers,
>> Doru
>> -- 
>> www.tudorgirba.com
>> "Every thing has its own flow"


"One cannot do more than one can do."

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