[Pharo-project] When will Fuel file format stabilize?
tinchodias at gmail.com
Sat Oct 15 09:06:23 EDT 2011
I like the ideas of Stef and Ben of loading multiple fuel versions at the
same time. Do you know something done in that sense?
On Sat, Oct 15, 2011 at 7:09 AM, Mariano Martinez Peck <
marianopeck at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, Oct 15, 2011 at 11:49 AM, Philippe Marschall <kustos at gmx.net>wrote:
>> On 11.10.2011 21:51, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote:
>> > On Tue, Oct 11, 2011 at 8:55 AM, Philippe Marschall
>> > <philippe.marschall at netcetera.ch
>> > <mailto:philippe.marschall at netcetera.ch>> wrote:
>> > On 10/08/2011 10:42 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote:
>> > > s
>> > >
>> > >>>
>> > >>> This is IMHO more than necessary for Fuel to become a production
>> > ready
>> > >>> serializer and I'd say Fuel is now "old enough" to become such
>> > >>
>> > >> Yes.
>> > >> Now what I would love is that even if fuel changes that the
>> > evolution of
>> > >> information
>> > >> is taken into account because like that it will be exercised for
>> > real.
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > > No, that's impossible, and if posible, it is not worth it.
>> > Migrating from an
>> > > old format to a new one is extremelly complicated and innecessary.
>> > > easiest way to solve this is to take the correct version of Fuel,
>> > > materialize the graph from the stream, load new version of Fuel,
>> > > seriaize it again. That the easiest, more secure, and more
>> > > approach I can see.
>> > That is horribly naïve an excludes fuel from a lot of use cases. You
>> > can't use fuel for "archiving" objects outside of the image because
>> > will never know whether you will be able to read them in again
>> > the format changes. You will always need to have "live" ones in the
>> > image.
>> > No. That's incorrect. You won't be able to do that ONLY if you update
>> > Fuel to a new image that breaks format.
>> > You can still continue to use the same version and you will never have
>> > that problem. So, again, why you need to update Fuel?
>> Because it's old software. Bugs may not get fixed. It may not work in
>> newer Pharo versions. I may have dependencies on other libraries that
>> may require a new version of Fuel. You name it.
> I understand. What I mean is that depending on the changes and the amount
> of work, you can just adapt Fuel to new versions of Pharo but without
> changing its format.
> I mean....say you were in Fuel 1.4. You don't need to move to Fuel 1.8 just
> because. You can just try to fix 1.4 to make it work in latest pharo.
> That's EXACTLY what we do with ReferenceStream and friends. The only
> difference is that the Pharo team does that because it is in the core.
> But yes, it may happen that ideed you will require a new version of Fuel.
>> > Why SmartRefStream does not have this problem? because it hasn't
>> > changed in the last 10 years.
>> > So..do the same, take an specific Fuel version and keep it for 10 years.
>> > Just update it to make it work in Pharo without changing the format and
>> > you are done.
>> > That means you can't use fuel for anything Monticello related
>> > you may never be able to load those versions in again because the
>> > format has changed in the mean time.
>> > I guess that in the end, if someone can really do something for
>> > Monticello on top of Fuel it will be like 2 years from now, and at some
>> > point Fuel format will be stable.
>> > And as Stef says...you always have the code there in case of problems.
>> Monticello is just an example for a case where I want to store objects
>> outside of the image.
> Well, then you can just wait until we finish. Give us one year more.
> Instead of doing 1-year-long releases, we like to do 3 months releases.
> But again, that doesn't mean you have to update...
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