[Pharo-project] Popularity of Smalltalk in Software Industry

Igor Stasenko siguctua at gmail.com
Thu May 5 21:19:30 EDT 2011


On 6 May 2011 01:03, Jimmie Houchin <jlhouchin at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 5/5/2011 4:25 PM, Igor Stasenko wrote:
>
> On 5 May 2011 21:39, Jimmie Houchin <jlhouchin at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On 5/5/2011 12:21 PM, Igor Stasenko wrote:
>
> On 5 May 2011 18:57, Jimmie Houchin<jlhouchin at gmail.com>  wrote:
>
> [Big Snip]
>
> Well said.
> Except that i'm not sharing your view that its hard to interface with
> foreign libraries.
> Its not hard at all. Of course to connect two different worlds, you
> need to have knowledge
> in both of them. But this requirement not a bit different when you
> take any other pair of languages and try to
> connect them.
>
> Thanks,
>
> I have no knowledge of either the knowledge or the challenges involved in
> using external libraries in Pharo or Squeak. I have no knowledge of
> FFI/Alien or using C/C++/C# or compilers.
>

So, read about it. It doesn't bites. :)

> As I said, I am totally unaware of the limitations of the system, but that
> it did what I need, and would have liked to do that from Pharo/Squeak. I
> know Dolphin has/had certain capabilities. But I don't prefer to use
> non-open source software if at all possible for development. I also am very
> preferential towards cross-platform software. Dolphin fails on all accounts.
> I would choose my Python/Pharo blend over Dolphin any day. I know it
> introduces some pain, but I am willing to accept the pain. I like tools that
> allow me to use them where ever I am and whatever I am doing.
>
> However, that said, when I look at the facilities Python offers for such
> capabilities it on appearances looks quite impressive.
>
> http://docs.python.org/library/ctypes.html
>
> """
> ctypes is a foreign function library for Python. It provides C compatible
> data types, and allows calling functions in DLLs or shared libraries. It can
> be used to wrap these libraries in pure Python.
>
> 15.18.1.1. Loading dynamic link libraries
>
> ctypes exports the cdll, and on Windows windll and oledll objects, for
> loading dynamic link libraries.
>
> You load libraries by accessing them as attributes of these objects. cdll
> loads libraries which export functions using the standard cdecl calling
> convention, while windll libraries call functions using the stdcall calling
> convention. oledll also uses the stdcall calling convention, and assumes the
> functions return a Windows HRESULT error code. The error code is used to
> automatically raise a WindowsError exception when the function call fails.
>
> Here are some examples for Windows. Note that msvcrt is the MS standard C
> library containing most standard C functions, and uses the cdecl calling
> convention:
>
>>>> from ctypes import *
>>>> print windll.kernel32 # doctest: +WINDOWS
> <WinDLL 'kernel32', handle ... at ...>
>>>> print cdll.msvcrt # doctest: +WINDOWS
> <CDLL 'msvcrt', handle ... at ...>
>>>> libc = cdll.msvcrt # doctest: +WINDOWS
>>>
>

So? Why do you think that you cannot do the same in Pharo?
Have you digested what is available before doing it in Python?


> """
>
> It has examples for windows and linux.
>

I feel that you are seriously under-informed.
Just try googling for:

Squeak + FFI
Alien

NativeBoost

and just check what you can do using it:

http://www.squeaksource.com/NBOpenGL/

also check mail archives.

Forgive me, but i really can't understand , why you can't just look
for what you need by yourself?
Are google.com banned by your ISP?

For me this subject is interested in aspect, why this information
(while being available openly) didn't catch your
attention , so you using python instead.
(Okay, you might miss some functionality like being able to
automatically generate bindings to COM interfaces).
But again, i am sure that if you surf the net or ask right questions
on mailing list, you will probably discover that
there is already work being done in that direction.
And at last, if you feel that there is missing some key functionality
which you want, and you expect that it is also
could be useful to community, you can always implement it and share
with people (instead of using Python ;).
So, next who will come after you won't find himself in a desert with
couple of oasises few hundred miles away.

> I didn't read it all as I am unqualified to assess its capabilities or
> limitations, nor do I presently need it as the win32 extensions do easily
> and well what I presently need to do.
>
> Hopefully it can inform us as to what is expected and doable in alternative
> languages which are dynamic like Smalltalk.
>
> Jimmie
>



-- 
Best regards,
Igor Stasenko AKA sig.




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