[Pharo-project] MicroSqueak Was: Re: [update 1.2] #12188

Miguel Cobá miguel.coba at gmail.com
Mon Oct 11 17:13:10 EDT 2010


El lun, 11-10-2010 a las 22:56 +0200, Stéphane Ducasse escribió:
> > Now that John Maloney has released MicroSqueak as MIT
> > (http://web.media.mit.edu/~jmaloney/microsqueak/) shouldn't be worth to
> > analize it and see if that can be used as an alternative to build the
> > Pharo Kernel.
> 
> Yes we already started. Now I think that producing microsqueak for pharo should just be the easy part.
> Because after you want to be able to load package and not a large mess. 
> 
> So this is why we did the two in parallel since august
> 	- trying to recompile a kernel (for example as specified by pharo kernel) and fixing all the packages
> 	problems we could find. So we build 
> 							- tools to analyse the system
> 							- read a GNU ST based bootstrap 
> 							- read chacharas (we did not read spoon because we could not find it)
> 	
> 	- We were thinking that in parallel we would use an approach like chacharas (dynamic creation of a kernel based on an expression	definitively cool). gabriel started to have a look at	to build a micro kernel. So now that we have one we will check it.
> 
> > I know that Pavel (and now also Nicolas) have done a lot of work in
> > getting PharoCore stripped to a minimal kernel.
> > But as I understand, PharoKernel idea is to part from a core image,
> > reorganize packages, _unload_ what isn't needed and then shrink the
> > image to get a kernel image.
> 
> Not necessarily. It was just starting somewhere. 
> 
> > The approach of John Maloney's MicroSqueak is the inverse, parting from
> > a source code representation and from there to aggregate code until have
> > a full image.
> 
> I think that this is the way to go. But there is a middle man missing. 
> 
> > Of course the image from John hasn't all the improvements that Squeak
> > and Pharo have made to the core classes and that will mean a lot of
> > effort to reapply in order to get a modern image.
> 
> It should not be that difficult.
> The core image does not have to have everything. It can be simple and part of it can be overload/overridden.
> Now the process to go from seed (microsqueak pharo name) to pharo kernel is really important because
> we will find all kinds of dead skeleton in the drawers :)
> 
> > But I wonder, and not meaning to discourage any possibility, if isn't
> > worth to discuss the technical effort required and the pros/cons of each
> > approach and if isn't possible a reutilization of knowledge for this
> > very wanted goal of Pharo.
> 
> We already did that :)
> And we will continue to learn and build.

Ah, good to know. I will be very happy to someday take a 50k input, and
a script.st file containing a ConfigurationOfXXX load sentence and get a
fully featured custom image. 
Keep the good job.

Cheers

> 
> Stef
> > 
> > Cheers
> > 
> > -- 
> > Miguel Cobá
> > http://miguel.leugim.com.mx
> > 
> > 
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> > Pharo-project at lists.gforge.inria.fr
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> 
> 
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-- 
Miguel Cobá
http://miguel.leugim.com.mx





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