[Pharo-project] {Spam?} Re: "Real" packages.

Miguel Enrique Cobá Martinez miguel.coba at gmail.com
Thu Feb 18 15:59:04 EST 2010


El jue, 18-02-2010 a las 12:18 -0800, Dale Henrichs escribió:
> Gemstone uses an order list of dictionaries for global lookup. Each user can change the order of the list or insert their own dictionaries into the list ... makes for quite a bit of flexibility.... you can load code into a particular dictionary...and the global resolution is at compile time (you can do lookup at runtime if you wish).
> 
> The advantage is that the code itself has no namespace artifacts at all.
> 
> I'm mentioning this as a point of information more than a serious suggestion that Pharo adopt such an approach, though:)

Why not, if it has been proved for a long time in Gemstone, shouldn't be
sensible to create something similar for Pharo? Or it uses some kind of
proprietary technology from Gemstone?

Well just asking. 

Thanks 
> 
> Dale
> 
> ----- "Wilhelm K Schwab" <bschwab at anest.ufl.edu> wrote:
> 
> | Sorry, I can't resist exploiting the typo: the would be "grate" (vs.
> | great) for me too.  I also suspect that name spaces would turn into a
> | horrible mess in short order.
> | 
> | I could learn to live with messages as class names, something like
> | 
> |   Smalltalk goGators Dictionary etc.
> | 
> | so that the "name space" is really an object accessed by a selector
> | (#goGators above) and Dictionary then is a message to same.  I got the
> | idea from Dolphin.  AFAIK, it has not gone terribly far, but my sense
> | is that it does what one really needs from name spaces without
> | inviting the slippery slope into Java packages.
> | 
> | Bill
> | 
> | 
> | -----Original Message-----
> | From: pharo-project-bounces at lists.gforge.inria.fr
> | [mailto:pharo-project-bounces at lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of
> | Esteban Lorenzano
> | Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 3:40 PM
> | To: pharo-project at lists.gforge.inria.fr
> | Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] {Spam?} Re: "Real" packages.
> | 
> | Well... I disagree with you, Mariano. If you allow packages, suddenly
> | you will have things like:
> | 
> | com.pirulo.Date,
> | ar.com.pirulin.Date
> | 
> | and a lot of classes who, in fact, should be just Date
> | 
> | (and that's just an example)
> | 
> | Cheers,
> | Esteban
> | 
> | On 2009-02-11 12:13:07 -0300, Mariano Martinez Peck
> | <marianopeck at gmail.com> said:
> | 
> | > 
> | > 
> | > I hate not having a real namespace. I hate to call my class 
> | > DBXConnection instead of Connection. I think namespaces are very 
> | > useful. Something like Java packages or similar would be grate for
> | me.
> | > 
> | > Cheers,
> | > 
> | > Mariano
> | > 
> | > On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 7:09 PM, Travis Kay <tlk at nb.sympatico.ca> 
> | > wrote:
> | > 
> | >> Bill Schwab wrote:
> | >>> Stef,
> | >>> 
> | >>> Re Dolphin, class categories have long been of marginal use; I'll
> | 
> | >>> speak
> | >> for myself on that but suspect others would agree.
> | >> I am a Dolphin Pro, Squeak and Pharo users, I agree.
> | >> 
> | >> Travis
> | >> 
> | >>> Packages are of course extremely useful.  Method categories are
> | also
> | >> quite useful, and Dolphin allows multiple categories to be assigned
> | 
> | >> to a given method.  Dolphin mixes virtual categories (computed by 
> | >> rules) with static ones maintained by the user (and serialized as
> | part of packages).
> | >>> 
> | >>> I can easily see where OB would get quite a speed boost out of
> | it.
> | >>> 
> | >>> Bill
> | >>> 
> | >>> 
> | >>> 
> | >>> 
> | >>> 
> | >>> Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D.
> | >>> University of Florida
> | >>> Department of Anesthesiology
> | >>> PO Box 100254
> | >>> Gainesville, FL 32610-0254
> | >>> 
> | >>> Email: bschwab at anest.ufl.edu
> | >>> Tel: (352) 273-6785
> | >>> FAX: (352) 392-7029
> | >>> 
> | >>> 
> | >>> 
> | >>>>>> stephane.ducasse at inria.fr 2/10/2009 4:41:10 PM >>>
> | >>>>>> 
> | >>> Alexandre implemented long time ago an hybrid model where both
> | kind 
> | >>> of packages could coexist and we should probably revive it for
> | 1.1
> | >>> 
> | >>> Stef
> | >>> On Feb 10, 2009, at 10:28 PM, Michael van der Gulik wrote:
> | >>> 
> | >>> 
> | >>>> On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 9:21 AM, David R=F6thlisberger 
> | >>>> <squeak at webcita=
> | > s.ch
> | >>>> 
> | >>>>> wrote:
> | >>>>> 
> | >>>> So if we had real packages in Pharo as first class entities, OB 
> | >>>> would be much faster and simpler to maintain. Right now, OB
> | models 
> | >>>> packages and class cats itself, has to take the information from
> | 
> | >>>> both the Monticello's working copy managers and the 
> | >>>> SystemOrganizer. This is a mess and a huge pain, but what can we
> | do.
> | >>>> We should really invest in bringing real packages to Pharo.
> | >>>> 
> | >>>> 
> | >>>> If you want "real" packages, I've implemented them in Squeak:
> | >>>> 
> | >>>> http://gulik.pbwiki.com/Namespaces
> | >>>> http://gulik.pbwiki.com/Packages
> | >>>> 
> | >>>> The places the code is held, including a video and a Squeak image
> | is
> | >>>> linked from here:
> | >>>> http://gulik.pbwiki.com/SecureSqueak
> | >>>> 
> | >>>> I'm not interested in Pharo, but the code is there and is
> | released
> | >>>> under the MIT license if anybody else wants it.
> | >>>> 
> | >>>> Gulik.
> | >>>> 
> | >>>> --
> | >>>> http://people.squeakfoundation.org/person/mikevdg
> | >>>> http://gulik.pbwiki.com/
> | >>>> _______________________________________________
> | >>>> Pharo-project mailing list
> | >>>> Pharo-project at lists.gforge.inria.fr
> | >>>>
> | http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
> | >>>> 
> | >>> 
> | >>> 
> | >>> _______________________________________________
> | >>> Pharo-project mailing list
> | >>> Pharo-project at lists.gforge.inria.fr
> | >>>
> | http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
> | >>> 
> | >>> 
> | >>> _______________________________________________
> | >>> Pharo-project mailing list
> | >>> Pharo-project at lists.gforge.inria.fr
> | >>>
> | http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
> | >>>
> | -----------------------------------------------------------------------=
> | > -
> | >>> 
> | >>> 
> | >>> No virus found in this incoming message.
> | >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> | >>> Version: 8.0.233 / Virus Database: 270.10.20/1943 - Release Date:
> | >> 02/10/09 07:20:00
> | >>> 
> | >>> 
> | >> 
> | >> 
> | >> _______________________________________________
> | >> Pharo-project mailing list
> | >> Pharo-project at lists.gforge.inria.fr
> | >>
> | http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
> | >> 
> | > 
> | > 
> | > I hate not having a real namespace. I hate to call my class
> | DBXConnection i=
> | > nstead of Connection. I think namespaces are very useful. Something
> | like Ja=
> | > va packages or similar would be grate for me.
> | <br><br>Cheers,<br><br>Marian=
> | > o<br>
> | > <br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 7:09 PM,
> | Travis Kay =
> | > <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a 
> | >
> | href=3D"mailto:tlk at nb.sympatico.ca">tlk-F7KtY6MJiVI/4Up/o1S3Qw at public.gmane.org=
> | co.ca</a>></span> 
> | > 
> | > wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"b=
> | > order-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;
> | paddin=
> | > g-left: 1ex;">
> | > <div class=3D"Ih2E3d">Bill Schwab wrote:<br>
> | > > Stef,<br>
> | > ><br>
> | > > Re Dolphin, class categories have long been of marginal use;
> | I'll =
> | > speak for myself on that but suspect others would agree.<br>
> | > </div>I am a Dolphin Pro, Squeak and Pharo users, I agree.<br>
> | > <br>
> | > Travis<br>
> | > <div><div></div><div class=3D"Wj3C7c"><br>
> | > > Packages are of course extremely useful.  Method
> | categories are a=
> | > lso quite useful, and Dolphin allows multiple categories to be
> | assigned to =
> | > a given method.  Dolphin mixes virtual categories (computed by
> | rules) =
> | > with static ones maintained by the user (and serialized as part of
> | packages=
> | > ).<br>
> | > 
> | > ><br>
> | > > I can easily see where OB would get quite a speed boost out of
> | it.<br>
> | > ><br>
> | > > Bill<br>
> | > ><br>
> | > ><br>
> | > ><br>
> | > ><br>
> | > ><br>
> | > > Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D.<br>
> | > > University of Florida<br>
> | > > Department of Anesthesiology<br>
> | > > PO Box 100254<br>
> | > > Gainesville, FL 32610-0254<br>
> | > ><br>
> | > > Email: <a 
> | > href=3D"mailto:bschwab at anest.ufl.edu">bschwab at anest.ufl.edu<=
> | /a><br>
> | > 
> | > 
> | > Tel: (352) 273-6785<br>
> | > > FAX: (352) 392-7029<br>
> | > ><br>
> | > ><br>
> | > ><br>
> | > >>>> <a 
> | > href=3D"mailto:stephane.ducasse at inria.fr">stephane.duca=
> | sse at inria.fr</a> 
> | > 
> | > 2/10/2009 4:41:10 PM >>><br>
> | > >>>><br>
> | > > Alexandre implemented long time ago an hybrid model where both
> | kind of=
> | > <br>
> | > > packages could coexist<br>
> | > > and we should probably revive it for 1.1<br>
> | > ><br>
> | > > Stef<br>
> | > > On Feb 10, 2009, at 10:28 PM, Michael van der Gulik wrote:<br>
> | > ><br>
> | > ><br>
> | > >> On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 9:21 AM, David R=F6thlisberger
> | <squeak@=
> | > webcitas.ch<br>
> | > >><br>
> | > >>> wrote:<br>
> | > >>><br>
> | > >> So if we had real packages in Pharo as first class
> | entities, OB<br=
> | >> 
> | > >> would be much faster<br>
> | > >> and simpler to maintain. Right now, OB models packages and
> | class<b=
> | > r>
> | > >> cats itself, has to<br>
> | > >> take the information from both the Monticello's working
> | copy<b=
> | > r>
> | > >> managers and the<br>
> | > >> SystemOrganizer. This is a mess and a huge pain, but what
> | can we d=
> | > o.<br>
> | > >> We should really invest in bringing real packages to
> | Pharo.<br>
> | > >><br>
> | > >><br>
> | > >> If you want "real" packages, I've implemented
> | them i=
> | > n Squeak:<br>
> | > >><br>
> | > >> <a href=3D"http://gulik.pbwiki.com/Namespaces"
> | target=3D"_blank">h=
> | > ttp://gulik.pbwiki.com/Namespaces</a><br>
> | > >> <a href=3D"http://gulik.pbwiki.com/Packages"
> | target=3D"_blank">htt=
> | > p://gulik.pbwiki.com/Packages</a><br>
> | > >><br>
> | > >> The places the code is held, including a video and a Squeak
> | image =
> | > is<br>
> | > >> linked from here:<br>
> | > >> <a href=3D"http://gulik.pbwiki.com/SecureSqueak"
> | target=3D"_blank"=
> | >> http://gulik.pbwiki.com/SecureSqueak</a><br>
> | > >><br>
> | > >> I'm not interested in Pharo, but the code is there and
> | is rele=
> | > ased<br>
> | > >> under the MIT license if anybody else wants it.<br>
> | > >><br>
> | > >> Gulik.<br>
> | > >><br>
> | > >> --<br>
> | > >> <a
> | href=3D"http://people.squeakfoundation.org/person/mikevdg" targ=
> | >
> | et=3D"_blank">http://people.squeakfoundation.org/person/mikevdg</a><br>
> | > >> <a href=3D"http://gulik.pbwiki.com/"
> | target=3D"_blank">http://guli=
> | > k.pbwiki.com/</a><br>
> | > >> _______________________________________________<br>
> | > >> Pharo-project mailing list<br>
> | > >> <a 
> | > href=3D"mailto:Pharo-project at lists.gforge.inria.fr">Pharo-proje=
> | ct at lists.gforge.inria.fr</a><br>
> | >> 
> | > 
> | > <a href=3D"http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p=
> | > haro-project"
> | target=3D"_blank">http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailma=
> | > n/listinfo/pharo-project</a><br>
> | > >><br>
> | > ><br>
> | > ><br>
> | > > _______________________________________________<br>
> | > > Pharo-project mailing list<br>
> | > > <a 
> | >
> | href=3D"mailto:Pharo-project at lists.gforge.inria.fr">Pharo-project at l=
> | ists.gforge.inria.fr</a><br>
> | > 
> | > 
> | > <a
> | href=3D"http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo=
> | > -project"
> | target=3D"_blank">http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/li=
> | > stinfo/pharo-project</a><br>
> | > ><br>
> | > ><br>
> | > > _______________________________________________<br>
> | > > Pharo-project mailing list<br>
> | > > <a 
> | >
> | href=3D"mailto:Pharo-project at lists.gforge.inria.fr">Pharo-project at l=
> | ists.gforge.inria.fr</a><br>
> | > 
> | > 
> | > <a
> | href=3D"http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo=
> | > -project"
> | target=3D"_blank">http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/li=
> | > stinfo/pharo-project</a><br>
> | > </div></div>>
> | ----------------------------------------------------------=
> | > --------------<br>
> | > ><br>
> | > ><br>
> | > > No virus found in this incoming message.<br>
> | > > Checked by AVG - <a href=3D"http://www.avg.com"
> | target=3D"_blank">www.=
> | > avg.com</a><br>
> | > > Version: 8.0.233 / Virus Database: 270.10.20/1943 - Release
> | Date: 02/1=
> | > 0/09 07:20:00<br>
> | > <div><div></div><div class=3D"Wj3C7c">><br>
> | > ><br>
> | > <br>
> | > <br>
> | > _______________________________________________<br>
> | > Pharo-project mailing list<br>
> | > <a 
> | >
> | href=3D"mailto:Pharo-project at lists.gforge.inria.fr">Pharo-project at lists.=
> | gforge.inria.fr</a><br>
> | <a 
> | > 
> | >
> | href=3D"http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-proj=
> | > ect"
> | target=3D"_blank">http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinf=
> | > o/pharo-project</a><br>
> | > </div></div></blockquote></div><br>
> | > 
> | > 
> | > 
> | > 
> | > _______________________________________________
> | > Pharo-project mailing list
> | > Pharo-project at lists.gforge.inria.fr
> | > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
> | 
> | 
> | 
> | 
> | _______________________________________________
> | Pharo-project mailing list
> | Pharo-project at lists.gforge.inria.fr
> | http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
> | 
> | _______________________________________________
> | Pharo-project mailing list
> | Pharo-project at lists.gforge.inria.fr
> | http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Pharo-project mailing list
> Pharo-project at lists.gforge.inria.fr
> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

-- 
Miguel Cobá
http://miguel.leugim.com.mx





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